Fabrizio

I am going to be asking our students to develop dutch bucket hydroponic systems that can help feed small families. This is something that can be subsidized as we are going to give labor freely as well as demonstrating to poor families how to maintain dutch bucket systems.

This might be worthy of donations. I will have to brief my students and do a pilot project in school first then expand out to the community, 

Gathering links related to basic income

 
Books:
http://www.versobooks.com/books/1989-inventing-the-future
- Inventing the Future: Postcapitalism and a World Without Work



Articles:
http://www.basicincomeaction.org/about_basic_income
- What is a basic income? Why do we need a basic income? What are the benefits? How do we pay for it? Where does the money come from? What is origin of this idea, the history of basic income? But won’t it undermine work incentives? Won’t people quit their jobs? and more!



Videos & podcasts:
- Bitcoin News with Vortex: https://blab.im/vortex-bitcoin-news-8 with @MrChrisEllis and @TheOneVortex (@Twitter handles)
 -- Basic Income 1h51min25sec ->



Active Basic Income projects:
!!! Currently active open Basic Income crowdfunding experiment! Round #2. !!!
The Indiegogo page for the crowdfunding (funded! :)) https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-my-basic-income-project--2#/
And the webpage to sign up for the raffle: http://joelaguero.com/my-basic-income/


- Freicoin (http://freico.in)
- MoBUinet (http://mobuinet.com)
- GroupCurrency (http://groupcurrency.org)
- FIMK (http://fimk.fi) (only for Finland)
- uCoin (http://ucoin.io)
- BitNation (https://bitnation.co)
- Circles (https://ourbasicincome.wordpress.com)
- CO | OPEN / MANGOS (http://liv.io)
  -- Threads at Freicoin Alliance Forums:
   --- MANGOS - Prototyping a plattform for a universal dividend currency 
   --- MANGOS - Proposal for centralized verification institution (https://freicoinalliance.com/topic/184-mangos-proposal-for-centralized-verification-institution/)
   --- MANGOS - Suggestion for Universal Dividend Distribution with Web of Trust with plus Levels (https://freicoinalliance.com/topic/182-mangos-suggestion-for-universal-dividend-distribution-with-web-of-trust-with-plus-levels/)
- Winc Association / WLC (http://verify.winc-ev.com)
 -- aka WorldLeadCurrency
 -- Github: https://github.com/WorldLeadCurrency/WLC/
 -- BitcoinTalk thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=791398.0
 
People/advocates/other Basic Income accounts on social media:
CryptoUBI reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoUBI)
BasicIncome reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/BasicIncome/)
BasicIncome (https://twitter.com/basicincome)
BasicIncomeEurope (https://twitter.com/basicincomeEU)
BasicIncomeUK (https://twitter.com/basicincome_uk) BasicIncomeGreece (https://twitter.com/basic_incomegr)
BasicIncomeIreland (https://twitter.com/basicincomeirl) BasicIncomeSverige (https://twitter.com/Basinkomst)
BasicIncomeEarth (https://twitter.com/BasicIncomeOrg)
Freicoin (https://twitter.com/freicoin)
GroupCurrency (https://twitter.com/GroupCurrency) Circles (https://twitter.com/aboutCircles)
Winc association (https://twitter.com/WINC_ev)
Greg Selpak (https://twitter.com) (OkTurtles / GroupCurrency) Scott Santers (https://twitter.com/2noame)
David Graeber (https://twitter.com/davidgraeber)
Susanne Tarkowski Tempelhof (https://www.linkedin.com/in/susannetarkowski) (BitNation)  
Events:
*empty (edited on 21.1.2016)

Sweden's have had negative interest rates for a while too
 
Hehe, for the link had to pick this one cuz of the silly title
"People are hiding cash in their microwaves as Sweden gets closer to being the first cashless society with negative interest rates"
http://uk.businessinsider.com/sweden-cashless-society-negative-interest-rates-2015-10

Yups

Would anyone else have some interest in participating with ideas and maybe contribute some time for this?
Maybe we can try and have a meetup on IRC/mumble after a long while again

I'll be hanging on the FA Mumble during the days anyways too, so if anyones up for random chatting, hit me up there! (Warning: my finglish is very viking like mumbling )

Keen on 1. Charity for poor kids in our urban area using the basic income idea. 2. Solar Array for our school students raise / earn the money to get the solar array.

Hi all,
with the new Client version Dash implemented an decentraliezed blockchain based budget system.
Could be an inspiration for Freicoins Budgeting system.
 
All the good,
Arcurus
 
 
Self-sustainable Decentralized Governance by Blockchain (Budget System)
 
 
Skip to end of metadata
Created by Robert Wiecko, last modified by moocowmoo on Sep 12, 2015 Go to start of metadata

Introduction
One of the greatest challenges of building a crypto currency platform is ensuring you create a decentralized system of governance to manage, fund, maintain and expand the project. This key element is absent in every currency to date, the natural response is to create a not-for-profit foundation that is tasked with maintaining the core protocol and promoting the coin but is not really connected to the coin holders in any meaningful way. This approach has a few issues that have been made evident from the experience of older crypto currency platforms.
 
 
 
https://dashpay.atlassian.net/wiki/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=8585240

Totally aware of the rationalization, thats why I think a currency with implemented redistribution mechanism aka universal dividend is such an important thing to be discovered and researched. So, help me playing around with "mangos" and ask for features to be developed, in order to test things out that we can implement it later on in a "real world" currency.  

We will interested in doing this and helping kids in poverty here locally near our school to register and get involved. 
 
I will have our students map out how this can be done and who we need to target.
 
We want to find kids who can't afford school uniforms and what not.
 
Issue is how do we get the Freicoins / Rupiah in the hands of kids so that money goes directly to their educational costs.
 
===
Side note:
 
Our Solar School Project.
 
We have to raise / earn $5575 USD to install a net metered system to power our school. That will be our next MAJOR project at school. 


74,261,094.96 IDR 

5,575.00 USD
 
3,982,327.26 FRC
 
24.37184281 BTC

Hi Fab,
about economics in the beginning if you want to bring a currency in circulation it is like that:
- first you must give it out on masses, but fair, the more you reach the more easy, the better
- then slowly you reduce this amount.
 
 
The idea you suggest is exactly what I outlined in the concept I sent to you some weeks ago.
In short the idea is: 1 hour work for the common good / enterprises that take care of the common good receive some amount of Freicoins for each hour.
 
In away this is also one part of what is suggested on top of this topic, but not with that much rules in it....
I think more detailed rules can be develop out of the experience from the giveway.
 
For the sidechain project... For sure it would be nice to have. Currently as far as I know Mark needs people to test the new Freicoin Client.
So yea for sure it would be good to have testers for that.
 
But this is independed from the Freicoin giveways, we have now some coins, time to give them away, the good is in Freicoin, that even if we have no coins we could use a part of the demurraged coins in the future.
 
For the giveaway it would be enough to have at least one functioning wallet. I suggest to test the one from:
https://cointopay.com/
 
Would be great to start with the giveaways the next days.

Sup Arcurus Sorry, been a lil out there for the summer and forgot to reply earlier
Anyways, all went good and a nice harvest was shared. Since there was only a few people who participated, we went with the smaller greenroom.

I'm currently organizing a group buy for parts to build DIY LEDs on another forum to prepare for a new round of winter growing. If theres interest or question aboots either, the LEDs or the co-op grow, lemme know

Hey hey hey  
Like the idea of distributing some of the FA's Freicoins, Arcurus, *nods*
While I have doubts (note: I'm not educated at all about economics) in "public" giveaways (where you just hand out free coins, like faucets) being that productive/beneficial, I like the idea of supporting co-operation and encouraging propagating ideals of Freicoin.

Maybe you guys can comment on an idea I've been thinking of giving a try here locally?
Offer giveaways for common-good projects, for example: 
Have one day (for starters) a week, when you offer 10 FRC (or 1FreiHour) / hour salary for anyone that participates in a project for helping out the elderly, cleaning up/enhancing the public services, etc.
"Public services" would be something that would enhance the local community in some way. Like here in this town; having an excercise/bingo/oldies music/documentary/chatting night in the local hospital, having an after-school "hangout" for school kids, or de-snowing the jogging or commonly used sightseeing routes.

In this way, we could maybe link this to the Freination project?
 
BTW, from what I've understood, the Sidechain project by Blockstream seems to have had positive experiences and has progressed pretty nicely. Theres some features in there that would be nice to have in Freicoin as well... so, as the Freicoin ~wallets are still based on pretty old version of Bitcoin.. should we be trying to attract testers and/or developers to work on that? Or maybe wait and see how the Sidechain project develops and not risk "wasting" the resources on "if's"?

I will have a meeting with a befriended lawyer tomorrow.    But Chiemgauer is doing this already since 12 years successfully. 
Well you would of course combine it with the blockchain. The institution is just there for the verification process. And there will never be physical papers handed out, we are in a digital age. In the end it is a totally valid alt currency, just on the legal paper its vouchers. 

This is a centralized approach, I was thinking about today on this topic:

**Introduction to the vocher model**
As fas as speaking today, there is still a lot to be discussed around the legal state of alternative- and cryptocurrencies, since non-government identities are so far not entitled to create their own currencies. One inspiring workaround was found by our local currency in Bavaria, the [Chiemgauer][1], which lead us to build on that solution and advance their model to a global scale operation.  The solution the chiemgauer organization was choosing is to build their currency on the definition of vouchers. A voucher can be issued by any legal identity as long as it is tightly coupled to a real currency, such as the Euro. In case of the Chiemgauer, 1 Euro is the same as 1 Chiemgauer.   **Adaption of model to a basic income currency** We were wrapping our head around how to take advantage of that solution and jumpstart an alternative currency with integrated basic income. Our proposal, the Mango Bank:   The MangoBank will be founded as a non-profit organization, whose main mission will be to verify individuals and other organizations and connect the vouchers to the euro. In order to be able for the MangoBank to always pay out Euros for their vouchers, each new verified member will have to deposit 5€ in the MangoBank. Our conversation rate will be put at 5€ = 50.000 Vouchers. Since for each person there is going to be only 43.800 vouchers generated, the 5€ will equal to 4.38€. The remaining 0.62 Cents are the bounty for our hardworking verificators, that are traveling the world to reach every last individual to enable everyone to receive our basic income vouchers.    Since we have open markets, the vouchers can gain higher value over the course of time when traded in the markets. Thus, making the MangoBank Organisation obsolete, once other institutions are exchanging the vouchers for better exchange rates than the MangoBank...   To be continued soon     [1]: http://chiemgauer.info/

http://talk.liv.io/t...d-vouchers/18/1
And here the levels of verification:
  What levels of verification do you suggest? And how are they defined?
4 Levels: 
1 | Anonymous: Login & Signup with normal user. Just look around, you are not verified yet.
(verified: false) 2 | Verified: You have been verified by a member with level 3, you now receive Mangos
(verified: true) 3 | Verificator: If you have been appointed by a member with level 4, you are able to identify other members
(verified: true) 4 | RootVerificator: As root verificator, you are able to appoint Verificators and other Root Verificators
(verified: true) At which level will you get mangos distributed?
Level 2: The moment you are completely verified 
 
Who is able to verify who?
Level 1,2: notAllowed
Level 3: 1 and 2 
Level 4: 1,2 and 3
 
No verification lasts forever, when will be a renewal due or how can you fall out of your current verification level again?
No ideas yet, what would you suggest?
 
If there are black sheep abusing their verification level, who and how are they going to be suspended from their level?
No ideas yet, what would you suggest?

http://talk.liv.io/t...tion-methods/14

hmmm,
the good think is, that I don’t see facebook anymore in the proposal
 
to your questions:
No verification lasts forever, when will be a renewal due or how can you fall out of your current verification level again?
I suggest every 5 years like in the current mango example.
 
If there are black sheep abusing their verification level, who and how are they going to be suspended from their level?
use some liquid democracy platform like Adhocracy to vote on all the stuff.
in the beginning you can just use it for feedback, later on if it functions you can even code the liquid democracy logic in the blockchain itself.
 
 
If this stuff with the voucher is functioning?
...better ask an good lawyer, or use an not so easy attack able thing like the bitcoin technology.
 
Just to look in the history, they even changed the laws to forbid alternative currencies in the past, even if these currencies demonstrated very successfully how to solve the great depression problems...
 
to better give them not much to attack...
 
or go to Brasil, their the main court ruled, that the central bank cannot forbid local currencies, if they help the people.
 
The argument was, that the central bank did nothing to solve poverty, but the local currency did
 
Also in Argentinia there was an funny example. When their currency collapsed the last time, millions of people start to use alternative currencies.
 
They functioned very well, until the bank started to print with their printing machines the alternative currency and destroyed it...
 
Sadly, the judges could do nothing against the banks, even if they wanted, because it was not illegal to forge it, because it was no legal tender....
 
I wounder why they could stop them with claiming their copyright.... maybe the next time... would be a nice irony if finally the copyright would be used to stop the banking cartel
 
So better be prepared and use some kind of cryto currency which is non forge-able.

Hi All,
to make it more simple what do you think about starting an Freicoingiveaway to get some thinks started?
 
I would suggest to give up to 500.000 Freicoins away, so that the giveaway gets some attention.
 
The giveaway addresses individuals as equal as organisations (projects / enterprises)
 
Everybody can apply through posting in the liquid democracy Adhocracy plattform why he / she is eligible to take part in the giveawy.
 
Everybody is encouraged to comment on applications, as long as the comments stay polite.
 
Applications from verified / known individuals / organizations naturally will have an higher priority.
 
 
Applications can get follow up grants / giveaways in the future.
 
The more an application fits to the goal of the Freicoin Alliance the more likely an giveaway will be given.
 
 
The goal is to encourage cooperation, sharing of knowledge and a non harming fair economy.

In short:
- Encourage an fair economy
- Encourage cooperation.
- Encourage moving from harming to an non harming economy!
- Encourage transparency
- Encourage sharing of knowledge
- Encourage decentralization
- Encourage proagation of Freicoin
... Feel free to add
 
 
Examples could be:
- helping somebody
- Installing / testing or programming some free / open source software
- growing own food
- donating some time or money to charities / common good projects
- educate oneself, or help to educate others
- help to propagate Freicoin
- using Freicoin to buy some thing
- verifying their account per video chat / local meeting
- donging something, what you never did
- encourage decentralization
- buy / propagate ecological products
- donate to common good projects and organizations
- helping the underprivileged
...
 
What do you think?
 
All the good,
MArtin

Hi,
following the suggestion from Marc, to separate the projects here is an suggestion to register the Freination (fromer Freirepublic) / Freieconomy project:
As always, please feel free to comment!
 
All the good,
Martin
 
The main goal of the Freination Project is help to propagate a Common Good Economy called Freieconomy based on the ideals of Silvio Gesell to enable fair participation of all people.
 
In short:
 
- Encourage cooperation
- Encourage transparency
- Encourage helping the underprivileged
- Encourage sharing of knowledge
- Encourage decentralization
- Encourage the use of Freesoftware
- Encourage the use of virtual democracy platforms
 
- Encourage an fair and sustainable economy
- Encourage moving from harming to an non harming economy!
- Encourage the propagation of Freicoin
- Encourage basic income experiments
 
More details you can find here:
https://freicoinalliance.com/topic/100-freirepublic-freieconomy-help-to-propagate-a-common-good-economy/

Yeah, we played around with the paper wallets with a few geezers a bit and it worked pretty fine as an alternative currency between us. 
However, with Freicoin theres a bit of a problem with the demurrage.. the 10FRC paper wallet is not 10FRC but for the moment its created. I guess it would be possible to create a system to work around it (book keeping), but I guess its too troublesome for the situation here in the town. 
 
While I hope to see a solution to the paper wallet situation in future, I wish to get the older folks to try out the gadgets for payments and getting them online to follow and participate with the community happenings.

Thanks Arcurus Noticed it the other day, but havent had the time to translate and look into it properly. Have some famliy visiting for some days, but I'll hope to get to it in a few days 
 
Samuel, thats a good simple example and and logically explained, thanks 
I wonder if its a big task to hook/create a simple webfront like the Mangos, but use actual Freicoins? We've had a few similar ideas around the community, but like Arc has mentioned, theres been only a few coders.
For alpha and everything testing, rough and out-there builds are fine, so everything doesnt need to be on the blockchain at first.. but would be great if there would be somehow do the accounting so, that one can have Freicoins they "own" in their wallets if they want at some points. We already have some tools that could be useful in such tests, and since you seem to know some codemagicianing, hopefully you could resurrect some and get them to good use ^^
Fedde's minershare system could be tuned to be used in the early dividend handling... or something, I'm rambling again  

But yeah, I live in Finland, in a small town about 200km north from Helsinki. Mäntyharju being the municipality The townsfolks are mostly older folk, with very few youngsters around.. but they're pretty active and community spirited peoples some of them I've managed to get some of them to try out the "feel" of alternative currencies with Freicoin, with paper wallets and being like an accountant and doing things on gadgets for them Very few from these folks are tech oriented though.. my uncle dont have a PC and rarely even uses his dumbphone for example .. so its hard to find actual participants for tests from around here :I
At the "city" center of Mäntyharju though, theres lil more people and tech oriented youngsters who would be a bit more suited audience and have shown some interest already too. Hehe, coding an easy to use and open custom system has been the biggest ~obstacle here too, but maybe and hopefully we cant get something cooking this winter

here some feedback:
- Bugs: sending negative money
 
Suggestions:
- add the possibilit to add picture or link to picture / social profile
- Change: So that one ¨accepted¨ verification counts for both mango eaters (participants )
because if you need to verify somebody, so or so you need to see his real face, to verify the picture
maybe better to call it verified friend and make it similar friend request in social networks
 
 
Further ideas:
Currently I am thinking about an web of trust system with playful trust levels, would be great to test out some ideas here:
 
First:
- Add option to donate to the Universal Dividend Project / Donations are redistributed to all participants
- Add listing of all donations
- Change: Restrict verification to one verification per donated  24 Mangos (DailyIncome)
This would give the first usecase to Mangos and test some alternative verification system
 
Second:
 
- Add display of mango Levels:
 
Level 1 = 10 frienddays
Level 2 = 30 frienddays
Level 3 = 60 frienddays
Level 4 = 100 frienddays
...
 
friendday += (Sum LevelFriends) * days - demurrage
--> the more friends the better
--> the higher their level the better
 
- Change distribution of mangos and donated mangos according to levels
the higher the level the more mangos
(Of course this would not be relative money anymore...)

Thanks Arcurus Noticed it the other day, but havent had the time to translate and look into it properly. Have some famliy visiting for some days, but I'll hope to get to it in a few days 
 
Samuel, thats a good simple example and and logically explained, thanks 
I wonder if its a big task to hook/create a simple webfront like the Mangos, but use actual Freicoins? We've had a few similar ideas around the community, but like Arc has mentioned, theres been only a few coders.
For alpha and everything testing, rough and out-there builds are fine, so everything doesnt need to be on the blockchain at first.. but would be great if there would be somehow do the accounting so, that one can have Freicoins they "own" in their wallets if they want at some points. We already have some tools that could be useful in such tests, and since you seem to know some codemagicianing, hopefully you could resurrect some and get them to good use ^^
Fedde's minershare system could be tuned to be used in the early dividend handling... or something, I'm rambling again  

But yeah, I live in Finland, in a small town about 200km north from Helsinki. Mäntyharju being the municipality The townsfolks are mostly older folk, with very few youngsters around.. but they're pretty active and community spirited peoples some of them I've managed to get some of them to try out the "feel" of alternative currencies with Freicoin, with paper wallets and being like an accountant and doing things on gadgets for them Very few from these folks are tech oriented though.. my uncle dont have a PC and rarely even uses his dumbphone for example .. so its hard to find actual participants for tests from around here :I
At the "city" center of Mäntyharju though, theres lil more people and tech oriented youngsters who would be a bit more suited audience and have shown some interest already too. Hehe, coding an easy to use and open custom system has been the biggest ~obstacle here too, but maybe and hopefully we cant get something cooking this winter

GO TO Mangos and SignUp: (Be warned, super alpha stadium, everything can break every time)  mangos.liv.io   Mango generation: Every verified member gets one mango per hour Demurrage Fee: 20% To be fair in the long run and encourage spending of mangos during one year 20% of the mangos are decaying on every verified account Total Amount of Mangos to be generated per Person: In some years the money supply per participant would be quite stable with going towards 24 mangos * 365 * 5 ~43.800 mangos per participant at maximum
Speed: 1sec interval 1 seconds is one virtual min Verification Mechanism You can only get verified, if you sign up with Facebook, this is simulating for the prototyping stage a real world handshake. 

Please put any Bugs, Requests or Wishes here:
https://github.com/C...N/Mangos/issues

Fabrizio, where are you living?
The simplest explanation for a relational currency would be: 
For each person there is a fixed amount of coins generated and yearly distributed between all accounts with a demurrage Fee like 5% or 10%
So f.e.
You, Arcurus and Me are starting each with 1000 Coins = total 3000 Coins
We do some heavy, lovely trading of goods and services, now it looks like this:
Me: 100
You: 500
Arcurus: 2400

Now every year, everyone will get 100 Coins as UD (Universal Dividend, 10% of the total Coins / 3 people) minus the DF (demurrageFee, 10% of each individuals account) 
Me: 100 + 100 (UD) - 10 (DF) = 190
You: 500 + 100 (UD) - 50 (DF) = 550
Arcurus: 2400 + 100 (UD) - 240 = 2260

There is one more factor, which I left out for an easier explanation: 
Everyone is not starting with 1000, but gets over the course of time at a logarithmic rate those 1000 Coins distributed, in order to have an even growth of the total money mass. 
 

Excellent clips there Bick, thanks for linking 'em Recommend others to check 'em out.. atleast the shorter 'Humans Need Not Apply' clip. The automation industries have taken huge leaps in the precision and efficiency and some of them are already prettymuch ready for market. Especially with the driverless cars. Its something not in the future, theyre already here... think how many drivers-to-lose-jobs there are in the transportation industry?
 
 
"Daimler tests a self-driving, mass-produced truck on real roads" http://www.engadget.com/2015/10/04/daimler-self-driving-truck-test/ 

@Fab
Have sent you en example for how to start an currency with 10+ people.
 
Currently its just a draft in German, so you would have to use some kind of translation tool

Humans Need Not Apply is a 2014 short Internet documentary film, directed, produced, written, and edited by C. G. P. Grey. The film focuses on the future of the integration of automation into economics, as well as the worldwide workforce.
 

 
Grey & Brady introduce themselves after 18 episodes, working in public on the Internet, humblebragging revisited, a list of words that we mostly can't say on the podcast, the sacred space of calendars and 8 ways robots will take your job. 
 

 
This is why your idea is an EXCELLENT ONE although someone has to pay for the mining / transaction upkeep of the Freicoin network. The 80% collected should also go to the idea. We are going to need it when 40 to 60% unemployment worldwide happens soon. Look at automation in China. Jobs are being lost at an alarming rate already there.