Bicknellski

> allow pegs into this sidechain to be doubled in quantity 2:1 so that up to 50M freicoins can be moved from the old chain to the new chain, resulting in 100M on the other side. The new chain would also have its own subsidy so, if all goes well, there is a period of coexistence where both chains are used, until the peg pool is exhausted and the old chain is archived. 

This sounds, in principle, as a very bad idea to me.

Can you expand on that Jorge?

Well, first of all if one chain is planned to be abandoned after some 1wp period, some coins will get lost there.
I don't see the point in doing any kind of peg between 2 currencies with different subsidies (money creation) in different chains. The 2:1 up to 50 M also seems pointless.
I don't think another chain helps with the foundation problem in any way.
Apart from that, I would prefer a hf to elements features or a spin-off (if we really want a new genesis block) than a one way peg. But I guess we can leave that for other threads.

We can do that in a support thread   @kieranf  just so we don't polute this thread.

I can't agree enough that we are currently limited by developer time. We need more developers.
However I'm very cautious about the ICO craze. ICOs are securities offerings, and doing or promoting an unlicensed securities offering is a serious offense punished by massive fines, jail time, and a lifetime ban of working in the industry. People haven't been burned ... yet. But it's just a matter of time. It can be frustrating to watch developers with nearly zero experience raise huge sums of money for poorly defined projects, and even more frustrating to see the biggest offenders get a pass by regulatory authorities as they are grandfathered in under the new regime. However I'd still rather do this the right way, the morally and legally justifiable way, even if that road is a little harder.
The situation is not so dire though. The features I would like to get into this new freicoin are mostly already written -- it's just a matter of polish and integration.

Well, I'll be ready! With the 0.9 wallet, I learned how to compile it on my Mac, because my linux computer was 32 bit and Windows is crap. Once my home renos are done, I'll be buying a new 64 bit tower to run linux, and will be eagerly anticipating testing/compilling the next wallet! (PS I still think its rather cool that I am the only one running a 0.9 on my MAC :-p)

So, regarding releases...should we keep working on 0.9 for the next release and also start working on a 0.15 rebase for the next after that one?
 

I'll be helpful on the debugging if needed, twisted my head twice on the 0.9 before it woke up from the grave so i might be helpful at other things too

@Mark Friedenbach Our explorer runs on ABE, which I don't think is actively supported anymore. I was wondering what has to be done to accommodate Segwit and new tech. For example, could you send me a link to explain the new block structure? Any such helpful references would be appreciated.

This is quick guide to get started with own p2pool node that you can merge mine Solidar coin with. 
I mostly use debian, should work on Ubuntu also. Be aware that you might need to run a version 8 of debian.
Make sure you have Git installed ( sudo apt-get install git)
git clone https://github.com/wincev/p2pool.git p2pool This will put the p2pool code for Freicoin in p2pool directory.
Install requirements for running p2pool.
sudo apt-get install python-zope.interface python-twisted python-twisted-web Now, grab your coin daemon from freico.in and solidar.it,  install them and get them running.
Make sure you set the config files.
nano .freicoin/freicoin.conf This is minimal config 
server=1 daemon=1 rpcuser=freicoinrpc rpcpassword=yournastypassword rpcallowip=127.0.0.1 Similar for the merge mining, create a equal file with another rpcuser and password. 
Fire up the daemons 
freicoind -daemon solidard -daemon Let them sync fully, you will not be able to mine before they are fully synced.
Then go to the p2pool directory and create a start.sh (nano start.sh)
#!/bin/sh /usr/bin/python /home/p2pool/p2pool/run_p2pool.py --net freicoin --give-author 0 freicoinrpc yournastypassword \ --merged http://solidarrpc:[email protected]:55888 Make it executable with 
chmod 755 start.sh When wallets are synced, you can start the p2pool with merge mining by entering
./start.sh It should now fire up. Point your miners to stratum+tcp://your_ip_of_server:9638 with your freicoin address as username, password can be anything. Whenever a freicoin block is found, it will try and submit it on the solidar wallet also.
solidard getinfo To see if you get any solidar coins also into the solidar wallet.
(i will clean it up this thread, but this is basicly how it's done)

Thanks to Magius for introducing me in this topic, and thanks to everybody for appreciating and helping. 
A necessary premise, is that in this moment there is in Italy a growing debate about complementary currencies and there are several proposals by political parties. The matter is that the most of this people doesn't have any idea about what they are talking, but it's the mode and so everybody must say it's opinion. The other problem is that the Faz Project is based on a theory, and for understand deeply it's working way you must to study a bit, maybe some more than a bit. The most of people, including economist and politicians, like better easy slogans to hard studies. Anyway, the aim of the project is to realize a society in which is possible to give everybody a basic income and to finance economy without interest and debt. It seems a dream but it is scientifically possible. In our project isn't necessary State or any Public administration to participate. The project that we are building in an town of South Italy is founded on a Association of a certain number of enterprises (the most are very little business) and citizens. We found out an organization of 400 business, and for starting are enough, who constitute an Association and a "Consorzio per azioni", a kind of corporate syndication in which every member cannot have more than a little number of shares. The Corporate issue the bonds at negative tax rate ( f.e. ten per cent each year) so that the nominal debt disappear up the time scheduled in the issuing. Those bonds are virtual, as all bonds, and are subscribed by the association that distributes them among the members according to defined technical criteria. A bond issuing at negative tax rate is perfectly legal and doesn't create debt, because the value at the end of the period is almost zero. The members may use those bonds and fraction of them for payment in the community. The idea is to create a rechargeable card in which is possible to have simultaneously the bond and the normal currency, so that the payment may be done using both values. For a certain time (probably a long time), the business can sell their product in Euros and bond, f.e. 50% each. That's because there are many goods that is necessary to buy out of the community, but anyway this means that the most of people may double they spending power. The theory of the project is in our web sites. The project doesn't have boundaries, everybody in the world may participate, even if it starts as a local project and in the beginning the concrete exchanges may occur in the area. Faz is the acronym of Financial Autonomous Zone, and the idea is to build several communities all around the world. After a certain period (not so long) the issuing system is automatic so the project doesn't need a governance. Members are pushed to have cooperative behavior, because it is clear that this is the best way to meet their own selfishness.  
It would be very interesting to apply the Freicoin /Solidar for the project. We need of course a program for system management, and it isn't easy to built. 
Thank for your cooperation and understanding. 

As I said you before, I'm the co-developper of an "analogic" alternative financial system called FAZ. We had the nomination from a local enterprises' pool of an italian South Italy city with about 160.00 inhabitants, to make a proposal for a local economic system based on a demurraged currency, basic income and free loans to enterprises. Our deal is to make a new Worgl experiment, the italian one! We have the guarantee that enterprises' pool will accept the currency and that the city major will accept the currency in payment for local taxes. We're going to work to a system based on negative rate corporate bonds used as currency, but could be interesting in parallel to understand if Freicoin/Solidar could be used, implementing also a free loans system in cryptocurrency. 

Hrm... I spent all morning dwelling on this and I think the situation might not be as hopeless as we (Jorge and I) thought before. I am on mobile and can't type a full description, but TL;DR mimblewimble demonstrates a mechanism for non interactively joining ballots together such that the resulting aggregate vote tally doesn't reveal the amounts of the individual vote.  To limit loss of privacy if the federation is compromised or corrupt, you could do a coin join vote so that your individual holding is not revealed. I'm not sure how realistic that would be though. 

Arcurus, all of the approaches I've seen described by you are either centralized, or vulnerable to attack if made anonymous and therefore trust/identity based. Please correct me if this is not the case.
Republicoin was made nearly-decentralized by using proof of stake as a vote. 1 kria = 1 vote. However the problem is that the vote counting is done by miners in a chain, and while the miners can't create votes, they can censor them. So the miners really control the election by disenfranchising people they don't like. Not decentralized. There is a semi-trusted solution to this where a strong federation works together to do the vote counting. That could have been a solution 5 years ago, if the technology had been invented then.
But alas none of this is compatible with confidential transactions. And I'd rather have confidential transactions than a semi-trusted republicoin.

Well, 5 years later it's still not clear that a decentralized solution is even possible. And if it's not decentralized.. then what are we doing here? It'd be so much simpler to have a central ledger that manages demurrage in that case.
I will say that I am solely and exclusively interested in decentralized solutions only, in both the near and long term.

Additionally i will add the possibility do give the internal bot transactions a message so merchants can link those transactions to a specific sale.

Ok, i found someone from italy that already organized some meetings for freimoney projects in italy and agreed to take care of the homepage. If you have any suggestions feel free to bring them in.

well anyway, it works better if you start with no block chain downloaded (empty chaindata\) then run C:\Users\Reza\AppData\Roaming\Ethereum Wallet\binaries\Geth\unpacked\geth --syncmode "fast" --cache 1024 console.
That loads chain much faster. After that, run wallet. I'm not sure how wallet performance will be after that. more info:
https://theethereum.wiki/w/index.php/Ethereum_Wallet_Syncing_Problems#How_to_recover_from_slow_syncing.3F
 

i was thinking of something like this (sort of with a kria).. Kria to the moon!

Ya I agree with that assessment on what needs fixing 100% with you on that agenda and thanks for clarifying.

 

Gobsmacked. You really buried the lead for the most interesting possible updates. 
This is most interesting aspect of what you are planning for FRC. If you can help crack that and get FRC in that arena and at the forefront maybe there is hope for wider adoption. Personally when I first came to bitcoin it was a huge liability I saw where those with technical skills, resources, lower power costs would eventually 'control the coin'. Centralized mining in the hands of only a few corporations or organizations and a lot fraud has happened as a direct result of this race to centralization. Everyone has a phone. Everyone. 
I always hoped to see something where POW mining was on every hand-phone on the planet and it was not a massive warehouse requiring coal fired plants being fired up in Inner Mongolia securing the network. I will be following that thread closely and I hope there is a potential to bring mining back to the small scale really individuals rather than a collective entity with massive resources. I will read up on the link you posted. 

I posted a little bit more about development roadmaps in the Future of Freicoin thread.

Difference of 2 satoshi/kria, actually. Lightning struck twice.
The wallet does not let you spend more than you have. This is not a bug or mistake. What happened was that about a year and a half ago we rolled out a soft-fork upgrade of the Freicoin network which changed the rules regarding how demurrage is calculated. Specifically it made it so that demurrage is truncated (rounded down) per-input instead of in aggregate over all transactions. Imagine a transaction that, after demurrage is calculated, results in 2 inputs that have 0.8 and 0.8 fractional kria each. Under the old rules these are represented as arbitrary-precision rational numbers that sum to 1.6 kria, which is then truncated to 1. Under the new rules, they are each truncated to zero before being summed as integers. 0 + 0 = 0.
While the old method was probably ideal in some mathematical sense, it required that every single piece of the freicoin code that worked with transaction values had to be modified to use arbitrary precision arithmetic. It was a huge drag on developer resources as patches many thousands of lines long had to be maintained and updated for each release. Indeed this minor technicality was one of the two main reasons we fell behind in maintaining the freicoin releases for each upstream bitcoin version (the other being lack of testing). The new method, on the other hand, confines the complex mathematics to a single 10-line function in a single file and only a few other points need to be updated to call that function. Much easier to maintain and well worth switching to.
However that does mean that if you create a zero-fee transaction using an old client (v0.8.3 or earlier), there is a small chance that you will trip this bug and claim one or two extra kria that you are not allowed under the new rules, thereby making your transaction invalid to any upgraded client. This was deemed to be an acceptably small risk for both theoretical and practical reasons. The theory is that it required paying zero fees, which is not the default even with nearly empty blocks, and even then had a low probability of happening. And pragmatically, we observed that in the 3 years or so that Freicoin had been in existence and in use, such a transaction had never, ever been made: the new-rules clients were able to successfully sync the whole chain without any exceptions being made. Finally, even if it did happen, that would not by itself lead to loss of funds -- the transaction would simply not confirm. Unconfirmed transactions is a fact of life in the greater bitcoin world and there are tools for dealing with them. Either make your wallet forget the transaction, upgrade, and sign again; or re-create it using the raw transaction API and manually adjust the amounts. Those are the two approaches I would take.
 
Mark. Murphy is a heartless bastard that enjoys picking on our friend Jert. Twice.

Gobsmacked. You really buried the lead for the most interesting possible updates. 
This is most interesting aspect of what you are planning for FRC. If you can help crack that and get FRC in that arena and at the forefront maybe there is hope for wider adoption. Personally when I first came to bitcoin it was a huge liability I saw where those with technical skills, resources, lower power costs would eventually 'control the coin'. Centralized mining in the hands of only a few corporations or organizations and a lot fraud has happened as a direct result of this race to centralization. Everyone has a phone. Everyone. 
I always hoped to see something where POW mining was on every hand-phone on the planet and it was not a massive warehouse requiring coal fired plants being fired up in Inner Mongolia securing the network. I will be following that thread closely and I hope there is a potential to bring mining back to the small scale really individuals rather than a collective entity with massive resources. I will read up on the link you posted. 

No solution, I'm afraid. Anyone can fork bitcoin, or freicoin, or any other crypto currency at any time and try to get people to use the new spinoff coin over the old one. This isn't the first time that it has happened to bitcoin either, just the first time that it had any significant (albeit minority) support from miners, users, developers, etc. There is not some crypto magic that would save us from this outcome -- I can think of generic approaches to replay prevention that would work no matter the underlying crypto system (e.g. XOR the signature with fixed data).