"Bootstrapping" - Rebooting Freicoin

[Bicknellski 276]

Preamble

 

We are now in a critical juncture of the Kria. One where the coin resides in a limbo world of very few uses and still fewer miners and still fewer hands on the coin. Although value of the coin has dropped to nearly the lowest level ever this community still have strong feelings that this coin has potential. Given the proposal from Mark and Jorge on Freimarkets it would behoove everyone with interests in Freicoin to help fund that crowdsource idea. 

 

What we hope to accomplish in the meantime is a "relaunch" or "rebranding" of the coin so that we can ride the wave of discord and backlash against the 1000s of junk pump and dump coins that keep being born over and over again. 

 

What can we do?

 

1. Get the right information out to as many relevant websites, blogs and forums as we can.

 

2. Get more exchanges adding Freicoin to their list of accepted coins.

 

3. Get more payment gateways applications using FRC so that people can accept and trade FRC.

 

4. Get more companies buying / selling items for FRC.

 

5. Get more people mining our coin.

 

6. Establish a clear vision for Freicoin.

7. Establish a longer term goal for the use of the demurrage for good. 

 

The challenge?

 

Well simply put the real challenge now is really get a wider base of users and stakeholders. We have watched so many plans, good ideas, suggestions and what not be proposed for years now. What we can't keep doing is making proposals and doing little to follow up and complete such projects.

 

We also need to be inclusive and to bring in new blood. We need to excite the imagination of user with exciting projects like Freimarkets but also to make FRC more user friendly.

 

There is also the challenge of the Freicoin Foundation with 80% of the coin and no realistic way of dispensing it all within the time frame they proposed. It is more than likely the 80% is going to go into destruction. We as a community need to be aware of that fact and we need to do what we can to protect that 80% of the coin base from being used inappropriately.

 

The first step?

 

A meeting of interested parties.

Set a single goal for each party with a deadline to complete it.

Set goals that require little financial investment but provide the biggest impact on bootstrapping the coin.

Band together and pool resource when we have a clear objective.

 

Meeting to be held in September.

[Arcurus 331]

Nice Post!

To What can we do?

 

First of all we need some clear vision for Freicoin.

How can Freicoin look in the Future? What we want to do with the demurrage.

To have a coin with demurrage is not enough. We need to show what good things could be done with the demurrage.

 

Here is one project called freipay, that wants to 

support donations / investments / payments  in Freicoin (in this order) . http://freicoinalliance.com/topic/7-freicoin-alliance-will-support-payments-investments-donations-in-freicoin/

This could really boost Freicoin. We should concentrate our effort to bring such a project to the start and show that it is possible.

 

Then we also would have an answer why somebody should use Freicoin.

Because Payments though using the demurraged coins are up to 5% cheaper then in any other coin at the moment.

 

This could also balance really good in the long run. The less Freicoin is used the higher this "rabatt" could become though using the demurraged coins. The higher the rabatt the more users the more users the less the rabatt will become and so on.

This could be a good self adjusting thing!

 

What we need is simple:

First of all the acceptance of the Feicoin Community.

Second the acceptance through Jorge and Mark to be registered for coin matching.

Third a small website to describe how freipay is functioning.

Last but not least we need round about three proxy payers who do the coin handling manually.

 

In the Alphaphase the coin handling could be done manually. In this phase the proxy payers should make sure, that at least 7 hours per week payments are being processed.

If more payments are coming then we can handle, we could give priority according to the high of the transaction or the publishing date of the transaction. 

 

Of course donations before investments before payments.

 

 

All the good,

Arcurus

[Fabrizio 162]

Great points fellas, and great to see this kind of ideas being discussed now

And just a few words before getting to commenting
I've pondered on the ideas of demurrage based currencies from about the same time as cryptocurrencies in general, and have been very surprised with the lack of interest in deploying demurrage into crypto's during this whole time. I actually got started on writing a.. talk/post/paper or whatever it turns out to be .. regarding demurrage in cryptos some days ago, after now having most of the seasons garden work done and getting to finishing my somewhat broad trends research into cryptocurrencties. With clear goals and transparent ways to accomplish them, I would indeed see there to be a real need for demurrage cryptocurrency.
So what I'm trying to say here, is that I've done some ideaing and planning for promotion of adoption of demurrage cryptos for a while, and am very interested and willing to contribute to this! As long as the processes and goals are transparent and clearly set 

 

Preamble

*clip*

What we hope to accomplish in the meantime is a "relaunch" or "rebranding" of the coin so that we can ride the wave of discord and backlash against the 1000s of junk pump and dump coins that keep being born over and over again. 

The challenge?

*clip*

There is also the challenge of the Freicoin Foundation with 80% of the coin and no realistic way of dispensing it all within the time frame they proposed. It is more than likely the 80% is going to go into destruction. We as a community need to be aware of that fact and we need to do what we can to protect that 80% of the coin base from being used inappropriately.

*clip

 

 

I would see these parts to be the first things that needs to be addressed.
- Rebrand / existing coin base?
This could affect so many user groups stances in so many different ways; some could see the currently small holders of the coin to have too much influence over the progress forward, some could see it to allow manipulation, some could argue it to allow booming innovation, etc.
In what state is the blockchain currently?
Should there a relaunch with clean ledger, or rebranding using the existing Freicoin ledger?

- Relaunch / need to change fundamentals?
Is the 80% optimal amount to be pointed to Foundation? Should the % be lower?
Should there maybe be different groups receiving the funds instead of one? Is there a need to be able to increase these groups in the future?
Should the demurrage from existing coins be received by Foundation or some other group?
Is the current demurrage rate useful with the future goals?

These will affect the possibilities for progress and rate of adoption greatly. There's both good and bad in both depending on the goals to achieve.. so my question kinda goes to everyone: What would you see the best way to go forward? Promote the existing structure, or launch a new? 

[Fabrizio 162]

Nice Post!

To What can we do?

 

First of all we need some clear vision for Freicoin.

How can Freicoin look in the Future? What we want to do with the demurrage.

To have a coin with demurrage is not enough. We need to show what good things could be done with the demurrage.

 

*clip*

 

I agree here, clear vision to show the difference of demurrage cryptos needs to show thorugh  What is the current needs in todays world that can be addressed or changed.. what is needed to change the world further? 

 

To provoke everyones thoughts a little further.. think about what you would say was the most basic, but most important idea or need that was achieved with Bitcoin the currency if asked by someone who dont know nothing about the bitcoin technology? What was the need or needs it addressed? 

And then.. what is still to be addressed the Bitcoin itself cannot address?

[Bicknellski 276]

Goal for me short term push more information out on current state of the coin and information updated across as many sites as possible. As well trying to get more exchanges and payment gates for the Kria. 

[Arcurus 331]

Here are my thoughts to Fabrizios questions:

 

"Should there a relaunch with clean ledger, or rebranding using the existing Freicoin ledger?"

Why? In worst case we have to destroy the foundation coins.

We should more work towards a state where the Freicoin Foundation must not hold any coins anymore.

Here is a list of projects how we could evolve to that:

http://freicoin.freeforums.org/issuing-mechanisms-current-state-of-development-t801.html

 

And here is a proposal to rebulcion (in short decentralized voting on how to issue demurraged Freicoins):

http://freicoin.freeforums.org/republicoin-design-discussion-t738.html

This could evolve the current Freicoin Foundation to an fully decentralized "Foundation".

 

To the other questions.

Currently I vote for only changing Freicoin as few as possible.

What we really need to do is to bring the coin issuing to function, for that we do not need to change the current Freicoin code.

In the longer run this coin issuing should evolve to something like rebulicoin, so that we don't need any Foundation anymore that issues the coins.

If an decentralized and fair issuing is function we should issue at least 50% or better 100%* of the demurraged coins with these issuing mechanism.

For the Freicoin protocol / client itself, we should be very careful to change it.

Currently I see there mainly three thinks which should be changed in the longer run:

First of all, we should start to make the issuing of the Foundation Freicoins p2p

Second, it would be nice that the default client supports small messages, so that it is easy to send them (this messages could be used for voting for coin matching and so on).

 

Third we need to think about how we want to secure the coin in the future.

Proof of work is a nice thing, but burns a lot of energy and money.

We will also be easy attack able as long as our coin is not the main coin in the currently used pow algorithm. Merge mining will also not solve that. What in the end counts is the bock reward. Of course Merge mining could help a to make the coin less attack able and the block generation time more stable, but the real security is the cost of abandon an created block (value of transaction fees + newly generated coins in this block).

 

With POW it is also very difficult to decentralize the foundation coin matching with another voting then POW itself. Because POW miners could always block all other voting transactions.

Currently I suggest in the long run to go to something like proof of fee /donation - In short the chain with the most paid fees wins, or some kind of proof of stake.

 

In a hybrid phase POW created coins could also count as a paid fee, as time comes POW could be reduced.

And of course Proof of stake could be an alternative, but poof of stake is a little bit tricky in an demurrage currency like Freicoin.

 

I think what is needed next is to outline a clear vision in which direction we want to develop with Freicoin.

 

All the good,

Arcurus

[Fabrizio 162]

I think what is needed next is to outline a clear vision in which direction we want to develop with Freicoin.

This is what I kinda was after There's so many good opinions and ideas for ways forward, that its a little hard to get a grasp of things. I think having a live chat, preferably with audio or even video, would do much good to to get the views aligned and streamline the processes ^^ Maybe we could try to arrange a time for something like this? 

[Bicknellski 276]

Meeting required... when do we want that to happen?

[Fabrizio 162]

Lets see if we can organize it for this week?

 

I'm available most days between ~3PM and 1AM (GMT +2), but can easily rearrange the days to fit any time. So post the days and time you guys would have the most suitable moment

We could use Mumble for the chat, it has both encrypted chat and audio  http://wiki.mumble.info/wiki/Main_Page

[Bicknellski 276]

I am available after 4:30 pm WIB (GMT +7).

 

Example for today.

 

Tuesday, 16 September 2014, 09:30:00 Tue 16:30

Tuesday, 16 September 2014, 10:00:00 Tue 17:00

Tuesday, 16 September 2014, 10:30:00 Tue 17:30

Tuesday, 16 September 2014, 11:00:00 Tue 18:00

Tuesday, 16 September 2014, 11:30:00 Tue 18:30

Tuesday, 16 September 2014, 12:00:00 Tue 19:00

Tuesday, 16 September 2014, 12:30:00 Tue 19:30

Tuesday, 16 September 2014, 13:00:00 Tue 20:00

Tuesday, 16 September 2014, 13:30:00 Tue 20:30

Tuesday, 16 September 2014, 14:00:00 Tue 21:00

Tuesday, 16 September 2014, 14:30:00 Tue 21:30

Tuesday, 16 September 2014, 15:00:00 Tue 22:00

Tuesday, 16 September 2014, 15:30:00 Tue 22:30

Tuesday, 16 September 2014, 16:00:00 Tue 23:00

Tuesday, 16 September 2014, 16:30:00 Tue 23:30

[Fabrizio 162]

Any of those times would be fine with me

I wonder if Arcurus and Fedde would also have the time, and maybe even jtimon or maaku?

 

I'll throw PM's and try to lurk in IRC

[Arcurus 331]

I wonder if Arcurus and Fedde would also have the time, and maybe even jtimon or maaku?

 

I'll throw PM's and try to lurk in IRC

lol, lurking on IRC for maaku and jitmon becomes a hobby of many Freicoiners

Yea would be nice to have them during the meeting.

Tomorrow evening I will travel for around two to three weeks to Italy to help there, so most likely I will not have a good internet connection and also not much time.

But I wish you much fun!

Maybe we can also meet more often on certain times in Freicoin IRC.

By the way, generally we should try to focus more on the topic and make new Topics for other stuff that is worth to discuss and then link them. Otherwise the Topics get a little bit confusing...

Of course a little bit offtopic is also ok, but if it is worth to discuss, then an own topic would be great