Arcurus

2 hours ago, Skirmant said:

Somewhere around two hours.

How many Freihours (1 Freihour = 10 dollar) would be ok for one working hour for you?

Fedde suggested to focus on a real time blockexplorer like: blockexplorer.com

@kieranf is the problem with the pool fixed? And thank you lot for helping to reduce the difficulty. we are already down now to 18 Million from 32 Million thats great!

I would also suggest to payout:

50K Freicoins for Kieranf and 50K for Fedde mining on Freicoin to bring the difficulty down.

Currently they would get get more Freicoins if they would mine Bitcoins and exchange them to Freicoins, but this would not solve our difficulty problem. So I think its fair to give them something in return for their effort.

As far as I understood maaku, the plan is to continue with the donation matching as long as the foundation has funds.

So we have still lot of funds to test alternatives distribution methods

The longer plan is then to make the coin issuing fully p2p.

The first step here would be to allow voting on the verification of the listed orgs and Feicoin projects that apply for donation matching.

I would recommend all that have some Freicoin related projects to register them at the foundation.

If you have already an known org you can just go ahead with registering.

If not, you can describe your project in this forum. Once you have support from the Freicoin community you can then register it with the foundation.

 

In the last meetings we have been talking also about using an trust level for each org, so that the payout could be more instant.

If the coins per month for an given org / project are below the trust level, the payout could be near instant. If not the payout must be approved manually.

 

Sounds great! The question is what is exactly to fix there.

What we could also do is that people who work an Freicoin Projects can list how many hours they worked on what and how many Freihours they expect for their work.

Once a Milestone is finished we could then pay out.

 

5 hours ago, Bicknellski said:

Thanks. We should do another bounty for the P2Pool as well as the code for that is messed up.

sounds good, can you set a topic up? Doesnt have rik experience in that?

great work, how much time you spent on it, so that we can compensate you?

 

By the way, are the seeds nodes special nodes, or does it connect to freicoin core nodes?

if the exchange is controlled by us gaming the freiexchange part should be not that easy

So or so they have to register at the exchange so we know who is doing what.

Later on we could develop a blockchain based transparent p2p exchange.

 

 

Added: 200.000 Freicoins for Freicoin Development and Infrastructure

Hello Freicoins,

First of all, Molly has currently not the time to take care of the alliance funds.

@Mollycat thank you a lot for all what you did and do for Freicoin

I would be ready to take care of it if no one else steps in.

My suggestion is not to hold the coins but to use the coins for Freicoin Projects / Giveaways.

 

Here a Budget suggestion:

100.000 Freicoins for Bicks School / Universal Income project given out to students. They decide what they want to with it.

100.000 Freicoins for Freipay project Whoever buys or sells something that supports the Freicoin movement values gets 10% back. 50% for donations (to not yet listed projects), no matter which currency he uses, but Freicoin transactions have a higher priority.

Fore example: helping the poor, planting trees, organic food, small stores, freedom respecting software projects...

In short everything that is non harming.

 

100.000 Freicoins for Freiexchange project:

In short Freicoins are given away as negative trading fee.

For example: The Negative fee starts with 0 and increases with -0.1 per hour until it reaches at max -1%

100.000 Freicoins for giveawys

100.000 Freicoins for Freicoin Credit union project. In short for each freicoin you lend you get one extra to lend

100.000 Freicoins for Freimining project.

For each Freicoin you invest for FreiMining you can an extra one that mines for freicoin projects on your choice

100.000 Freicoins for Freicoin Faucet

200.000 Freicoins for Freicoin Development and Infrastructure

Feel free to suggest your project if it is missing!

 

For all this projects:

To be ensure fairness Freicoins received per participant or participant group can be limited

 

If one project goes more well then the other, i m willing to move the coins to the best functioning projects.

 

The requirement for these projects to start is (some internal projects can start before):

 

Solve the slow block issue:

- fixing the slow block time issue. Thx to Fedde and @kieranf we 23 Terrahasehs on the network instead of one

- next week two new miners (3 BTC worth) will come that will support the Freicoin Network. Thx to Fedde they are hosted for no power costs.

- who wants can buy shares in them with the Freimining project

 

Have the updated clients on the websites:

- currently the Freicoin client at Freico.in does not find any nodes because the node list is outdated. This must be fixed, otherwiese new users get a very bad impression

- also the electrum and android wallet should be downloadable

 

Have the website updated:

The links both on freico.in and freicoin alliance must be fixed.

Pools, explorers etc, I will post a list.

The faq and description on Freico.in must be updated. Feel welcome to join here.

 

 

For the moment thats all,

Martin

1 hour ago, Bicknellski said:

1. I think we should as group in the FA work on getting the remaining 5 million coins mined so we then are in situation where rewards are transactional rewards. We should work towards the 10 minute block time as the base.

Step 1. Get as much mining as we can on the network for FRC until we mine out the remained 5 million coins.
Step 2. Adjust mining so that we as group try and maintain the 10 minute block time if we can.
Step 3. Discuss with Mark and Jorge about the mining rewards after initial issuance is complete. I do not want the Foundation to receive anymore FRC after this this happens. The 80% they have at that point should be recirculated out of Foundation hands as soon as possible or put in a credit union dispenser or universal income etc. It should be self regulating system without the need to have too much human decision making. I see a credit union that people can deposit FRC, loan FRC at 0% and some of the transaction fees can help with the offset of the 0% loans or deposits.


2. We need to get as much power on the network so that our efforts keep the coin at 10 minute blocks. So that there is a basic mining going on at all times.

3. Vircurex is not going to last very long I suspect we need to be very clear that we could lose it and our BTC / FRC so as much as possible we need to keep trading but only in so much as we are willing to lose individually or as the FA. We definitely need a new exchange. Friexchange.

 

Currently after the initial issuing all 5% goes to the miners.

The plan is to implement decentralized ways to vote on how to use some part of it. To test that we can use the foundation funds.

 

With the initial foundation funds:

¨without the need to have too much human decision making.¨

exactly because of that the foundation switched to donation matching, so that the foundation does not have to decide on that.

Everybody can vote with his donation for what the initial coins are used.

 

With the credit union

Sounds great. Just outline it then we can register it at the foundation.

My suggestion would be that we use the donation matching to double the credit amount.

For example you give one coin for lending, you get one extra coin to lent. This coin does not belong to the lender, but the lender can make an decision to who he wants to lend.

But better we make an own topic for that!

thats great! if you need another btc let me know. I will ask fedde if he can look into the pool problem.

7 hours ago, kieranf said:

Im trying,

 

Rented a shit load but a lot of it is failing saying that the pool is sick.

 

Don't know what the problem is......

Is it functioning now? I see you have mined a lot of blocks on the pool. Thx a lot for that! If not we must inform fedde, so that he can fix it.

Currently the main goal is to bring the difficulty down to normal levels before the attack. Next week we should get also some more Terra hashes to mine on Freicoin.

The idea to rent some miners if needed sounds great. I think we could also use alliance funds for that. I m also willing to donate for it. Could you take care of this ¨renting¨ project?

@kieranf thx for joing the mining effort!

We have now more then 24 Terra Hashes on Fedds pool!  http://frc.sicanet.net/index.php?page=statistics&action=pool

Great work!

great news! Thx to Fedde we have now 9 Terra Hashes more to bring down the difficulty.

That should least to at least one block per hour

And in around one week we have some more mining power behind Freicoin

So Bick, now we can start with your school project!

Im not a miner, so i dont know the exact stats.

You can finde here more details:

https://coinplorer.com/Charts/Difficulty/FRC

currently we must bring the difficulty down from the attack, so as short term solution i would be greaty to spent for example 1 BTC in exchange for the mined coins until the difficulty is more stable.

In the longer run it would be good to invest miners. I would be ready to give 1 btc per month for the next months (so in total 10BTC) (with foundation matching we could double that)

The mined coins would go to freicoin projects.

if btc is more lucrative to mine, we could mine for example 50% btc to buy freicoins and in case of need for speedup we can mine more freicoins, we just need some who are experiened in mining and know which miners are the best and take care that they mine on the longest chain. once merge mining is in place so or so we could mine both and buy freicoins with the mined bitcoins

 

 

4 hours ago, Bicknellski said:

Time to discuss this project again.

Maybe a number of projects should be put up in a kickstarter / stock exchange system?

+1

Would love to see this organic mining project running. As said I would love it Fab would register it on the foundation to get extra support.

For kickstarter I think first is good to outline what we want, then we can look further.

 

 

Here is what I suggest:

On 21.1.2016 at 3:15 AM, Arcurus said:

After out chat yesterday, I just thought about how to do the mining project:

I would suggest to register the organic mining project on the Freicoin Foundation Web to apply for donations.

the donations we then use to buy miners( maybe even a Dash node), or whatever gives a steady inflow of coins.

we mine then what ever gives the most Freicoins on the end.

the heat we use for the greenhouse to farm organic plants.

the plants can then be bought to a reduced price if they are bought through Freicoin

the mined Freicoins we use to invest in further mining / Farming or give to Freicoin projects.

 

to add: of course the extra foundation coins should be used to give back to the freicoin community. This could be reduced prices, supporting other freicoin projects, buying more miners if we need more security for the freicoin blockchain, or simple giving out an universal income. I think the most important thing is here transparency.

1. Get the initial issuance of 100 million Freicoin completed at required 10 minutes per block.

can you please outline?

2. Set a mining benchmark so that transaction rates are 10 minutes per block.

what you meant with that?
3. Keep Vircurex price stable and higher incrementally as our go to exchange at least until our own exchange is working properly then we move to it.

yea we are already doing that now until this block time issue is solved

I meet with fedde today at 15:00 (Berlin / Oslo) time here : https://appear.in/freicoin

I think main topic is mining.

Second topic Freicoin exchange and Freicoin Faucet.

great work! lets bring liquidity to them

@Bicknellski thx for the summary.

The first thing we have to solve is the slow block time.

 

Freicoinalliance: Buy Miners / hashpower

The easiest thing would be to buy some miners / or rent some hashing power.

I would suggest, that the Alliance would buy some miners with the funds it has.

I m ready to finance it and take care of the exchange to bitcoins.

We just need someone to take care of the miners and the purchase (personally im too long out of the mining business, i guess the best would be to use bitfury miners, maybe be could cooperate with them?)

 

Freimining

Second I suggest to register freimining project for donation maching

In short: For every Freicoin you mine you get one Freucoin for Freicoin related / common good projects

We could use Feddes pool share system to distribute them if Fedde agrees.

On top of that we could use the Freimining project to buy miners o have the coin more secure.

Im ready to donate for that.

 

Third: Mergemining

the Freicoin core devs are looking into merge mining Freicoin.

The question is to use a quick dirty name coin like merge mining, or an improved one.

The dirty version would mess up our Freicoin, chain, which would be acceptable if we so or so switch to a new chain fomat (lesson learned)

Here we need from the devs the clarity if we stay with the current mining alg. Then we as community can proceed with the above outlined steps.

 

Next is to have updated websites / functioning wallets.

Maaku suggested here that the Freicoin community can take care of freico.in so thats more decentralized.

Who ever wants to take care of that now is your time

 

Fourth: Univeral income / Freipay

Once block time problem is solved we can start Bicks school project / universal income and the freipay project. That would give some unique use cases to freicoin.

Freipay could look like that:

If you buy something with Freicoin from somebody that supports Freicoin values you get up to 10% Freicoins back (maybe even up to 50% in the beginning as promotion).

To be fair we could limit the coins received per user / user group.

 

Fifth: Freicoin Faucet

We should bring to run the Freicoin Faucet again and use donation matching to support it.

We could also give some extra coins to donate to projects.

For example 1 coin for each ip per time for the user and 10 coins for an registered project. (Numbers can change)

 

Sixth: Freiexchange

We could start the Freiexchange project to increase liquidity

This could look like that (numbers can be replaced):

If you provide liquidity to the market and place an unfilled order, your fees for this order decrease 0.1% per hour up to -10%

The negative fees are payed with the coin matching.

If there are not enough coins, coins are distributed first come first severed.

 

 

To be fair we could limit the coins received from negative fees per user / user group.

In the beginning I would suggest to use feeds exchange as pilot project (if he agrees)

In the loger run with freimarkets we could use the blockchain itself to make it transparent and fair.

This could also lead to the first commonly used decentralized exchange

 

 

As summary:Freipay in combination with universal income could increase Retailer Acceptance.*

Freimining could increase Hashpower (Verification Method)

 

Freiexchange could increase Market Capitalization and even more the Daily Trading Volume

 

Im also ready to help to stabilize Freicoin with making an Freicoin / Bitcoin Fond, that buys and sells Freicoins to make it more stable.

 

So that are my thoughts to that.

Have fun!

 

* At optimum I m aiming for 50% universal income and 50% for incentives using freicoin

Just imagine 10 dollars worth Freicoins per person and 10% if you buy from Freicoin supporting people / enterprises. with 1000 users this would be already 100.000 dollar per month sales volume on top of that we have a fair currency system and an value based more cooperative economy

 

 

 

 

To Bick:

The only thing the foundation currently does is:

- holding the key for the funds.

- deciding which issuing mechanism to use / which not

- Making the payout of the donation matching.

- And verify orgs / projects that apply for donation matching

 

Marc plan is to make the foundation more p2p.

How could that look?

First Instead of verification orgs, we had the idea using trust levels.

In short if an org / project has received more donations in the last 30 days then their trust, then the payout has to wait.

That would also give the benefit to have nearly instant payouts.

 

The Second idea is to make the voting for this trust level decentralized.

For example one coin one vote.

Marc want to use a a side-chain with messaging to count the votes. Im much more in favor to make it as easy as possible and use the transactions itself.

My idea is to allow to include short messages with an transaction.

For example if someone donates coins, he could then vote on limits of an org by voting +trust or -trust.

Thats nearly all we need and could be done onchain. And no, I dont think that this will blow up the blockchain too much at this point. WE ARE NOT BITCOIN. If it will blow up the blockchain too much in the future, still then we can create a sidechain or whatever. But I see no use to make it at this point more complicated then needed.

On top of that small messages would be also great to have to put in the chain for what the money was spent. That could give a lot more transparency for orgs / projects.

 

Once this is implemented and tested, we could go fully p2p for the foundation.

Ad worst 51% of the miners could block all votes. But still a normal client could see the voting transactions and therefore see that something is going on here.

Lets say we distribute 80% of the dumurrage this way, at worst miners could get the full 100% of the demurrage by cheating the system.

But hey, this is at worst as good as it is today, and still we could make an hard-fork to switch to another way of securing the chain like we want to do it now.

 

The biggest problem I see is, that marc is still very conservative with all that. He want to make it really well and want to make a perfect solution.

But I think at this point we dont need a perfect solution we just need something that is functioning!

Once have something functioning in place we will know how we can advance it further.

I think we generally have the habit to look too much into the future and see everything that could go wrong, instead of fixing what is currently going wrong.

 

For me these things must be fixed:

Vision:

1. Clearly communicate that only having a demurrage coin is not enough for us.

2. We want to make experiments with alternative issuing like universal income / freipay etc.

 

Technical:

1. block time issue

2. regular reliable coin issuing

3. updated wallets and updated websites

 

Community wise:

1. make regular meetings

2. meet more in person / per chat

3. Use an uniform logo / the Freicoin bird!

5. Update all links to the current forum

 

here also an interesting development:
Rootstock wants to use the proof of unique copies of the blockchain.

Could be interesting to follow it up:

https://youtu.be/F_0GxYU3SFc?t=805