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What happened with all the Economic discussions :)

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Hi All,

What happened with all the economic discussions from the Freicoin Forum?


Ok, I never found time to look into the discussions there, but now I start here one:


Think about the economy of the following:


Each participant can get up to 10 dollar* worth of Freicoins per Month as an World Citizens Dividend.


To get these:

- first he must join an on the Freicoin Foundation Web registered World "Citizens Project Group" that verifies his identity.

- second he must donate some Freicoins each month to that project group

- after the matching through the Freicoin Foundation he gets his Freicoins + the matched Freicoins (to an Maximum of 10 dollar worth of Freicoins per Month) 


What would be the economy of this?


* Just as an example.

world average income is heading towards $10,000 per year, so it would be 1/1000 of the average year income.


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I'm for the citizens dividend / basic income, but wouldnt see the basing of it in dollar value (or any other fiat) to be good in the long run since the crypto markets are driven so greatly by speculation and other greedy actions and fuckery (pardon my french :P).

I've been wrecking my brain with this for months and would see the technology needing to mature a bit more before this would be possible in world wide scale :) Something like freimarkets/republicoin could allow this to be achieved?
For now, one solution could be to have communities establish common good projects / activities to provide the basic human needs; proper housing and food. Maybe electricity and access to internet on top of that :)


The thing I'm working to establish here in the town is based in the Ubuntu ideals: work towards the communitys benefits few hours a week and be entitled for those needs :) 
Hmm, I'm too tired to get my thoughts out straight at this point, so will try outline the plan I have so far tomorrow :P

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Oki, here goes my current idea for the community dividends:

1. Set up a community bank/reserve and fund it (for example with 100 000 FRC). Single address.

2. Create paper wallets of 1, 2, 3, 5, 10, 20, 30, 50, 100 FRC. Use the FRC from the community banks single address to fund these.

3. Confirm the identities of participants and create two individual addresses for each 

4. Distribute certain amount of these paper wallets (to be decided) to each registered community member.
5. Allow exchange of these wallets 1/1 to Euro's. Keep these exchanged Euro's as a reserve for common good community project fundings.
6. Create a service / application that can be used to confirm the balance of the paper wallets by scanning the QR code.

So, every month, community members would contribute certain amount (10 FRC for example) to the community bank with the paper wallets (or in Euros). These contributions would be made to one of the individual addresses created in the registration, to keep track of the contributions.
In farmers market and community events, prices would be in FRC's for the community members, but also in Euro's to allow non-community members to buy the goods. The Euro's from these sales would be exchanged to FRC's 1/1 via the community bank (this obviously requires trust in the participants)

There would be weekly or monthly community gatherings, where the current community banks budget would be audited and discussion on common good projects to be supported would be decided. The another individual address would be used to sign/vote on these projects.


--- Setting up common good / community projects

For example, a farming project could work something like this:
- A person decided by the community would offer farm land to be used for a community project to produce healthy food. He would oversee the project.

- Other persons sign up to contribute time to support the farming. Be it daily/few times a week/weekly.

- After each workday, the person overseeing the project, would sign with the secondary address, that these persons have indeed contributed towards the project.

When the monthly meeting is held again, the contributions would be checked and if it falls within the lines of the community's contribution requirements, he would be entitled to daily free meals and a housing within the community.


Hehe, I bet I missed something and there is some "holes" in this, so, discussion and ideas on this would be much appreciated :) Nothing is set in stone and the project is still under development ^^

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Hi Fab,

thought about something similar.

Yea to use dollar was just an example maybe not the best, I will change it :)

TO your proposal,

1, Keep it simple

2. Don't use paper wallets. no use for that. Create something like the perception dollar[1] and create a "community exchange" where they can exchange to Freicoin.

3. Use Freicoin for connection / transfers with other more distant communities. Doen't use it to interact with your community or neighbor communities you don't want that.

4. Instead build locally on just giving and personal trust, do not require any signing in small scale communities.

5. Involve Children to use their creativity for example for designing their own currency.

6. Make whatever you do transparent, so that others can learn. Transparency gives trust!

More feedback later when I found more time.

[1] http://www.deceptiondollar.com/11andTrillionandPerc/PerceptionDollar1.html

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For example

1. create local community / find some local that share your vision

2. create your own local currency like Unity Credit, transition Credit or something.

3. Make sure to what society / world you want make a transition to

4. Get inspired by the perception dollar. The main point is to change the perception.

5. Use local projects / persons where you want bring the awareness to on your currency.

6. Give out 30 of these Transition Credits per month (so one per day.

7. Encourage people that they give some kind of Rabat if they give one of this notes during an purchase

8. Encourage that merchants put a sign with an nice symbol (like an smiling world) on their store and the percentage of their Rabat they give.

9. If you want bag your Transition Credits with Freicoins through using the Freicoin basic income project.

10. Group up with other world wide Transition communities

11. Enjoy Life and have some fun!

[1] http://www.deceptiondollar.com/11andTrillionandPerc/PerceptionDollar1.html

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I like the idea of the perception dollar, but its been hard to get people here in the town to understand even the concept of cryptocurrencies. I've spoken about the Ubuntu ideology.. world without money, barter, value, etc. but people are not ready to accept those ideas yet.
This is a small town, with only less than a hundred people living here. Counting the surrounding towns, the population is maybe around two hundred. And.. the average age is somewhere around 50 I'd guess  :P Most folks 60+. With only a handful of teenagers (I know only two here this town :P), and most of them will likely move to bigger cities when they get the chance :I

In the nearest city, where the townfolks also have to visit for shopping and so on, there's however some more action... would you think it's still worth the while to try to explain and go for the perception dollar? :)

I was thinking of using Freicoin directly, to promote the technology and idea behind cryptos. So far it has been received well. And via teaching the use of Freicoin, I'd have the chance of having other classes on using computers and mobile devices for everyday life. Only a handful of the older people here have learned how to surf the web. 

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If people want to use directly Freicoins, go on with that.

But I see no use in Euro backed paper wallets...

In a way the perception dollar is very easy to explain, much easier then crypto currencies, just give it in the hand. Beauty speaks for itself :)

The Ubuntu ideology is also very easy to understand, just participate in creating something together.

You must understand, that participation in an local community is an basic human need. Through society, the current culture, current school system , wearing cloths just to mention some people are just detrained to follow these natural instincts of helping each other.

But back to the topic, here an example how an Freicoin Backed Basic Income could work:

1. Founding

Group up with for example 10 people.

In the beginning and once in a while make an live-stream transmission and invite other nearby groups to share / build trust relationships / verify identities.

Make an group picture of this event and share it online, the more transparent the better.

2. Signing up with Freicoin Word Citizens Network

Get some Freicoins, so that you can take part in getting your basic income for your group.

Give the Freicoins out directly to your members if they want to use it directly (forget paper wallets, use mobile wallets if you want to use Freicoin).

or give them some note instead, that represents one FreicoinDay (see below)

Design your local community backed currency or use one design which is already there.

Back it with Freicoin if you want. For example one of this currency = one FreicoinDay (basic income in Freicoins)

For example lets say each person can get 3.000* Freicoins per month from the basic income network.**

This means 100 Freicoins per day, so an FreicoinDay would equal 100* Freicoins.

Participants can get the Freicoins directly, or an note that represents one FreicoinDay, you can give it also another name(but no paper wallet)

If an participant takes the paper money, the Freicoin Group will hold the Freicoins for him,

The Freicoin Group may lend them without interest to other groups or invest in community projects.

*If the value of Freicoin happen to rise, these number will naturally decrease. So one Freicoin day (also the old ones) would be for example 50 Freicoins if the value of a Freicoin doubled. This means that one Freicoin Day will always be one Freicoin Day, therefore lending and accounting can be done in this more stable unities.

If the value decreases, an Freicoin day would be equal to more Freicoins.

**To get the basic income, with currently 25% matching, the local Freicoin Group must "have" for each person 3000*4 = 12000 Freicoins

Imagine the economy of that. If the Freicoin price rise, people would need to have less Freicoins to back up their Freicoin Days and to get their basic income, so more Freicoins would be available, so the market would become more liquid and balance the price.

Also the other way round. The more the price falls, the more Freicoins are needed to get the full basic income amount and to back the Freicoindays, the less Freicoins would be available on the market, which would balance the price.

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I have a rule with these coins. BTC/FRC etc must be as simple or even simpler to use, more secure and more versatile than cash. Security is covered with encrypted passwords, so that is out of the picture, but that leaves simplicity. The simplicity of FIAT cash is about as simple as it gets, but if you bring with you a £100 note, you're stuck with those, and you can't split it just like that, you can't scan it and make it more or less valuable, you can't pay online with FIAT notes and so on.


With crypto currency the development is on the right track. In the future you can probably register your own name or physical signature to use as your wallet address, some beacon or even your biometry data, like facial signature, iris and fingerprint, the bollocks. Something unique to you only or a combination of that.

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3. Confirm the identities of participants and create two individual addresses for each


I found this a little creepy. The block-chain is public. Best practice is to not re-use addresses at all, much less strongly tie such addresses to kown indivituals.


This appears to be a side-effect of politicizing the coin distribution process. You can't jsut give "grants" to "worthy causes" without some kind of accountability. Of course, this extends to voting on worthy causes as well. One address does not necessarily correspond with one person.

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The thinking behind linking an identity to those two addresses were to keep track of the individuals participation in the community projects, and to make the voting process transparent :) And while the spending money would've been on paper wallets, the actual transacting between the people could not have been traced and privacy would've been kept ;)
Though, inspired by Arcurus's posts, I've been thinking and drafting different ways to go with the project ^^ So the quoted post is kind of outdated already :D

I've tried to run some very basic simulations / scenarios with the rules/ideas.. but its been hard to foresee all the possible behavior and use cases the community might have. So, will try to indeed keep it simple to start with, and add "features" when something had been tested useful :) We have moose peijaiset (wikipedia) tomorrow with surrounding townsfolks, so will bring up some of the ideas discussed here to get more input and opinions from the people ^^

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