Adilado

11 minutes ago, Fabrizio said:

'ay, fair points Bick. I'd like to see/hear more detailed visions of the future from both as well. Here on the forums or on the Freicoin website that is.. both have voiced some of their ideologies on some other mediums while discussing other topics, so they are out there for anyone who has been following their work  

I hope this isnt seen as stalling, but I'd like to see some discussion/opinions on the option 2 still though. Especially from jtimon, since it was his preferred choice. So @jtimon did you have some kind of schedule or scheme thought for this based on some ideals?

Thoughts for others: 100mil cap could be easier to psychologically accept for some people than the number that would be set after the fork. "Why is the supply this random number" -> research -> "Ohh, they changed it afterwards based on small number of votes" -> decrease in confidence.

A well planned schedule could also allow us to attract miners and users. If the rest of the coins would be made available for mining on certain date (for example 1.1.2018) and would be mined by end of 2018/2019/whatever, there could be time to get some of the Alliance mining and/or basic income projects up&running. This would in some aspects be kind of replacing Foundation with Alliance.. though the Alliance is holding some funds received from the foundation matching, so would also be a way to distribute them as well and ~correct the Foundations.. "mistakes" too.

Na. Odd or even number 28 mil is many times better 100 mil. Dont set the price down to one satoshi

I agree on alternative 4 as the community choice.

I vote YAY for alternative 4.

Yes a website upgrade would be cool but will it be used and accepted

14 minutes ago, Rik8119 said:

@jtimon yes i know that atm we follow what was planned all along. But the idea was, that if we have a stable coin supply and miners are already payed for their service why to pay them extra frc that is only used to inflate the price and discourage investors (in the end they pay for whatever freicoin is used for). So cutting the mining reward and only having the coins in circulation that are already out there was the idea some of us developed and which requires a hf.

That also means that most of us wanted the foundation funds to be destroyed, or maybe better

Option 5: to distribute it proportionally to all freicoin addresses out there (doesnt require a hard fork then).

Isnt that option 3?

Could mean a big selloff if that happened but im ok with distributing evenly too

Fedde mentioned a Freicoin lottery, what if all demurrage went to the lottery pool instead of to miners, this could be fun for speculators/investors/holders and could raise interest in the coin

So when will all this happen?

6 minutes ago, Arcurus said:

doesn't sound that great to me. its basically Bitcoin with demurrage for eternity to miners what @jtimon suggested.

i strongly oppose not to look into proof of stake security

to the soft fork, that could be easy to implement, just add one address where some part of the block reward goes if less than 100K coins are on that and give control of the address to someone who does the job of distributing them. later we can decentralize it.

simply destroy the coins seems up to now the best solution for the foundation.

simply out of curiosity, where did the community fail in distributing the coins?

 

 

I agree that proof of stake would be best, i love proof of stake so i hope dev can reconsider

Hooray!

Sounds good, I have faith in the devs. I think we indeed should keep working and developing.

Definitely dont let the coin die, that would not be fair for anyone. We now have a nice exchange and some volume. Lets work from here. And burn the foundation coins to start with.

Then we have been discussing a new website and Fedde says he could help out with that.

That is a good start.

> So basically remove the demurrage feature that inspired freicoin in the first place and makes it unique. I strongly oppose this.

Yes, I believe that the current system will keep us from growing, it is not a coincidence that we are among the smallest coins out there.

And the reason I believe that the 100 mil coins is a bad idea is that i dont want to see Freicoin priced at 1 satoshi, comeon lets make this coin grow with some new thinking, there must be a way that we all can agree.

Of the proposed options i say 1 or 4.

The coins should be destroyed, and that it takes time to reach 100 mil is good.

To be honest i think 100 mil is too much either way and its not a good number.

28 or close to is much better and closer to Bitcoin.

But it has to work for the miners too.

We are now many forum contributors and long time supporters that strongly believe that the foundations coins should not be released into circulation and the miners, if the timeframe is 10-100 years then fine but not in a quick pace as it will just crash the price, we dont need freicoin priced at 1 satoshi and it would not be fair to current holders of Freicoin.

What freicoin need is something to support growth of price and to be very attractive to their speculators. 

My personal opinion is that the foundations coins of 80% should be locked in a blockchain time contract and that demurrage should be drawn from there only and not from speculators/normal wallets. 

The second step (my personal opinion) would be to allow a proof of stake interest of about 2% so that holders will be rewarded for holding and not selling.

Further we could have a small transaction fee that gets burnt but probably a no fee system is better in marketing purpose.

Then what we need is a big marketing effort, designing a great website, promote our exchange and relaunch this coin on bitcointalk.

We have the opportunity to really grow here, lets make that happen instead of the opposite, people are really scared of investing in a coin that lose 5% of value yearly, it needs to be modified.

Yes, the error was on my end.

Quickest withdrawal I have ever seen, five out of five stars

6 minutes ago, fedde said:

Just to add a sidenote here.

Foundation does not recive any more funds, so they are locked there for now.

Only thing that makes it slowly move from foundation addresses to circluating coins (usable coins trough minings) is the demurrage, so already the foundation coins supply about 72% of the demurrage while the rest is from user addresses. Blocks are now @95.36743164 and it will stay that way forever as it's the demurrage of the 100mill coins. 

 

Sounds good BUT this need to be a proper lock on the blockchain. Not just "locked" until moved.

So its very good that the demurrage is largely paid by foundation. Now we timelock those funds forever and demurrage gets drawn from there and nowhere else.

I vote for less coins.

1. Keep foundation coins locked up, it does not have to be called "foundation", or even exist a foundation, just keep them there and take demurrage from there, use the coins from demurrage to develop the project. The developers can even keep say 10% from the beginning for development and bounty purposes, that is completely normal.

2. Implement a transaction fee that gets burnt, this way people that move freicoin around will participate in the demurrage anyways.

As the current system works with demurrage from all holders/investors this will not grow.

And to release 70 million new coins into circulation will NOT help the price, do you want to see Freicoin at 1 satoshi?

We need to be able to get investors in by promising a good return of investment, no one will come if 5% of their coins are deducted every year and at the same time release so many new coins on the market, people will just assume that is theft.

A decreasing total supply without investors own funds decreasing would be very good for the price and could be a sales argument for us.

Or how about locking foundation coins and draw a 5% demurrage only from there while implementing 2% pos on non  foundation coins.

If there was a smart contract of some kind locking the 80% in a transparent way, some kind of time lock and demurrage drawn from there.

It would drastically reduce the circulating supply and be very good for the price.

Then a relaunch ofcourse, marketing.

2 hours ago, fedde said:

I am actually finalyzing the exchange as we chit chat here, all tests are looking good so i am wrapping up and preparing to release it.

As arc says, if you want to get that amount of coins, it's not unreal to gain that in a month or two, coins are circulating and the userbase is growing slowly.

 

Great,I want to withdraw my freicoins but nothing seems to happen when i try, can you help?

7 hours ago, Skaro said:

Well anyway, Freicoin without demurrage is not Freicoin. Without demurrage, it just becomes a crappy 2014 clone of Bitcoin. You could POS or change the hash protocol, but there is no originality there. How many clones from 2014 are significant today? The top 20 list of crypto-currencies now are 50% coins in ICO (ie not even existing),Ethereum, and Ethereum copies which are at best multi-million dollar templates for Azure. Meanwhile we have a bunch of mouth frothing 'investors' creating self fulfilling prophecies from technical 'analysis' while everything is simply correlating to BTC. What, am I the only one that has ever made and LOST money on the stock exchange? You can't remember the downside?

Like the guy in that excellent Facebook post copied above said, when people really start using crypto currencies for buying things (as opposed to 'investing') a measure against inflation-deflation-speculation-hoarding will be very attractive. Also, it is a real solution that has been repeatedly applied in the past; ie there is a need. Freicoin is unique in this. It is regarded and listed in all books as innovative for demurrage. What is a currency 'investor' anyway? That term doesn't even exist. It's just mouth frothing lunacy piggy backing on Bitcoin developer's hard work. And there are more than enough bigger as#%les in the finance world that will eat them up.

The Foundation simply didn't work. It was supposed to be dissolved by having distributed all its funds by now. And yes, It should go, in a transparent verifiable, and fair way.

Demurrage can stay, but the coins can not go to foundation. Investors dont accept it. As i mentioned above would be a good solution. Owning freicoin gets you other coins on freiexchange and then the most of the demurraged frei get burnt. (less frei in circulation, higher price and happy investors)

I also did not get error message about 2 factor, thats not a problem right now though.

But when i want to withdraw freicoin it does not initiate a transaction, perhaps cold storage issue.

I think we are on to something, cant wait for more feedback.
People would go nuts for Freicoin and at the same time the original values would be intact.

I feel this coin is in good hands, its not created out of thin air. Lets make it great together. Its good to keep the original philosophy if we can just make it profitable and interesting for investors.

Just a crazy idea:

Demurrage is used to buy other crypto tokens that the owner of the account get in his own freicoin wallet. The wallet for example support Ethereum tokens and they can be stored there. This would give the freicoin holder other valuable coins while the freicoin coins get burnt, freicoin supply decrease over time. Win win. 

And people would love it.

OR as we have the exchange already, they just get small amount of BTC for holding freicoin. If the freicoin holder wants to they can just buy more freicoin.

And the example of high value because of demurrage, how did that work out so far? Really not so good if you ask me.

Biggest problem here is that coins go to foundation, people dont accept that since developers that hold almost all coins is a risk of coin dumping.

This is the way it works in crypto, if 5% were permanently burned that would be OK (but not good), this way is not OK.

This is the way people reason, how people reason drives price.

By doing what i presented earlier, this coin will jump xxxx%, I would like that.

I might have got it wrong, but.

If i have 100 coins, I dont want it to be 95 after one year but 105 (If staking).
Otherwise I am telling you in the view of a cryptocurrency investor that no one will be interested.

And i believe that the market would value a PoW/PoS combo.