3 more weeks until initial issuance is complete

[Arcurus 331]

yes for sure we need updated qt wallets. Its just without the help of maaku its very difficult to get, so i tried my best to contact him and also to get rid of the compile errors of 0.9

It would be good to have also a budget for core development. I think the best would be to donate some coins directly to the freicoin foundation address listed at the foundation web to give something back to all the effort maaku did up to now.

to mining pools, rik is looking into the p2p pool

what would be the difference / benefit, between the p2p pool and the links above. is one of them enough to have?

 

To merge mining, i'm not sure if this is a good idea. Currently Bitcoin mining is controlled by an monopoly of one Chinese Asic manufacturer. 

Irony: Better then use a single server which says what is the current block, it cannot be worse than that and fore sure costs less energy.

Merge mining is one option, one even simpler one would be to just use an Freicoin unique mining alg. That will make us far less attackable.

As second step we could use dashs masternode concept to secure the blockchain and even have near instant payments, private payments and a budget system.

Or we could implement the POS + POW proposal i outlined.

 

What i'm talking mostly about is not so much about a giveaway, it's all about bringing freicoin out to the people and focusing what freicoin makes different.

The big promise is not to have just a demurrage that goes to miners. The big difference of freicoin is to create a money for people.

So the whole point is what we do with the demurrage.

There were many developers coming and asking to help, but when they saw, that we still did not distribute any significant amount of money to projects they soon disappeared, because we missed the core of Freicoin.

There were also lot of people asking if we make a simple forum giveaway, or basic income, but we still now we seem to refuse that, so naturally these people go on and we loose their resources and time to develop better Freicoin infrastructure.

Therefore i'm so focused on bringing this core functions to run. Once we show to people that these core vision of Freicoin is met, we naturally attract also lot more developers and development resources.

Just take @Rik8119 or me personally. I want to have nothing to do with a money that just burns 5% of the monetary supply each year. That is not inspiring at all. I want to have a money that is distributed to common good projects and people to bring things to move.

My focus is simply to bring at least one project to run, that makes Freicoin different from other currencies and brings real use cases to Freicoin.

Simply lets bring Freicoin to the people and the people will help us naturally.

 

For the qtwallet, I will try my best to get news from maaku.

For the mining pool rik is looking into that.

With feddes Electrum server running we have at least one easy to use wallet.

What is still missing is a simple giveaway, or even better universal dividend project.

For me this part is very much important. Once people have money, they will start using it. And people will naturally start supporting Freicoin.

 

To the Alliance funds:

The Alliance was not only meant to make development projects. That was one part of it.

We wanted to use the matching to bring different projects to run, until they are big enough to register them separately on the Freicoin Foundation web.

If matching would come in regularly from the Freicoin Foundation, yes, we could just register these other projects and get the matching.

I would also encourage all who have costs for running Freicoin infrastructure and who did free work related to Freicoin to make it transparent and get matching for that, even if we just donate them again to the alliance. These are real costs that are donated and therefore should get matching from the Freicoin Foundation. 

 

The 400K I donated was for bringing out a universal dividend project. If someone has better uses for that, ok let's talk about that.

I wish really we don't need all this hick hack and could just give out some part of the demurrage to people.

 

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/freicoin-global-community-currency-from-the-occupy-movement#/

OCCCU's provision of “basic income” and the assessing of demurrage fees

[Rik8119 242]

Hi @fedde i understand absolutely what you are saying. We need to focus on what we can do before we think of what we could do.

This is why i implemented all those things for solidar. It has merge mining (can be used with any pool software), a sustainable distribution and a basic income part to redistribute the coins (fascebook messenger app for a monthly payout to active users).

My opinion on this is still: waiting for the devs to come by and fix everything is pointless, we are the ones left to call the decisions and take responsibility. The solidar features could also be implemented for freicoin but it is still time consuming. Masternodes and other mining algorithms/distribution systems are attractive but beyond our resources atm.

Rik

[fedde 311]

 

Quote

There were also lot of people asking if we make a simple forum giveaway, or basic income, but we still now we seem to refuse that, so naturally these people go on and we loose their resources and time to develop better Freicoin infrastructure.

Therefore i'm so focused on bringing this core functions to run. Once we show to people that these core vision of Freicoin is met, we naturally attract also lot more developers and development resources.

Lot's of people? Where?

Well, if you have your feet on the ground, if you can not exchange it, it will have no value. No value means you are giving away nothing more than monopoly money. You always argue against me on that in every discussion.

There is one thing a developer usually aims for and that is to get something back for work he is doing. As long as there is money to be made, developers will work to get things done.

Why don't you bounty those 400.000 have put into for this universal dividend project so maby it can be brought to life? 

And when it comes to dash, freicoin is not dash. We need to work with the code we have and the wallets that we have. Thats the real facts! And i am usually realistic on things.

 

[Arcurus 331]

12 hours ago, fedde said:

Why don't you bounty those 400.000 have put into for this universal dividend project so maby it can be brought to life? 

as said im open for suggestions.

If needed im ready to put in more than these 400.000

[Bicknellski 276]

Spend (donate) wisely.

We need a user base to support the developers.

How do we get more users / fans / subscribers to Freicoin?

 

[Skaro 129]

I have been trying to spread the word a little by posting comments in Facebook. I have also been writing websites to update their info on Freicoin. We should probably make publicity plan. 

To have a place where people can spend Freicoin, I have some of my own charcol nudes (reasonably ok drawings) i would give for auction and Arc has a line on chocolates. 

I was thinking it would be nice to try to write an article to get in a cryptocurrency magazine. Certainly, BlockStream's name should guarantee us some press. 

I think we should be keeping the publicity effects moderate until we have wallets ready. For new users and returning users we should probably have some info ready for them here. For example, if the Electrum wallet is working, perhaps a big flashing link here and a support thread.

 

[Skaro 129]

And we did have the idea of something like: "sign up at the exchange and get 1000 FRC"

[Skaro 129]

Perhaps, we could have a big flashing link at the Exchange to our 'Market' section here.

Apparently, there is some high quality art available in Freicoin only! 

[Arcurus 331]

54 minutes ago, Skaro said:

And we did have the idea of something like: "sign up at the exchange and get 1000 FRC"

maybe i'm misunderstood. My primary intention was not to make a giveaway for bringing people to sign up with Freiexchange.

My intention was to give out a universal dividend to people and give some incentive to hold  / use Freicoins.

That does not mean that we cannot make make a signup bonus for Freiexchange.

With promotion, currently Freicoin is mainly advertised as currency that has 5% demurrage / fee per year that goes to miners. 

Until this changes i don't feel well in advertising it.

[Arcurus 331]

@Rik8119 by thw way, what is your experience with merge mining and universal dividend so far with solidar / world lead currency?

[Rik8119 242]

Well, it is working but it is not the great attractor that i thought it would be. But if i get the facebook bot at m.me/solidar.winc interface to solidar network working it is fully automated.

Merged mining is working much better as i expected it. Though it was quite a hard time (took me two month of my free time) to implement it but i was eager to put it into two commits on github, so that it is a copy and paste job to integrate it into freicoin -maybe it could be done also through a single push request.

[Skaro 129]

Copy and paste? Well I'm in.

[Skaro 129]

1000 FRC is 447 Yen (Japanese).

this is real value. Let's buy and sell stuff! 

[Rik8119 242]

7 hours ago, Skaro said:

Copy and paste? Well I'm in.

Changes can be found Here:

https://github.com/WorldLeadCurrency/WLC/commit/28256589f0a491e372e2fa28ae02c3e4b2d6981f

Here:

https://github.com/WorldLeadCurrency/WLC/commit/1464e30e8aa5c8343c5594e0c4a24b268d8d0046

And here:

https://github.com/WorldLeadCurrency/WLC/commit/d267ad8e2e6cd724c45d59a8f97919556f760cfb

plus auxpow addition in makefile.unix

https://github.com/WorldLeadCurrency/WLC/commit/e6c552c2e766fad74bdfac9b25bb535ab0bd1363

 

There a handful hints to WLC that have to exchanged to FRC but then it should work.. and of course the chain id and the auxpow starting block have to be adjusted..

Rik

[Arcurus 331]

On 4/30/2017 at 1:25 PM, Skaro said:

this is real value. Let's buy and sell stuff! 

we could give out some Freicoins for every buy that is made with using Freicoin.

in the beginning we could also give out some coins for buying with other cryptos. In Freicoin we could double the amount.

This could also be done manually in the beginning, like you have to post the bill in the forum and then you get some freicoins.

to be fair this could be limited per user / user group.

[Bicknellski 276]

On 5/2/2017 at 11:32 AM, Arcurus said:

we could give out some Freicoins for every buy that is made with using Freicoin.

in the beginning we could also give out some coins for buying with other cryptos. In Freicoin we could double the amount.

This could also be done manually in the beginning, like you have to post the bill in the forum and then you get some freicoins.

to be fair this could be limited per user / user group.

Kria back program good idea. Matching from foundation using demurrage?

 

[Arcurus 331]

6 hours ago, Bicknellski said:

Kria back program good idea. Matching from foundation using demurrage?

if foundation goes along foundation, long time from demurrage.

[Rik8119 242]

Hi again, i found an easy way to add those commit to the latest freicoin code. the question is how exactly to go on, because it makes sense in my mind to add a sustainable distribution to the foundation also, i would do it as follows:

1. add the merged mining patch.

2. add a sustainable distribution (use a foundation address to receive 99% of all new generated coins)

3. we test the adjustments.

4. we create a pull request for the original fork, so the devs can pull it next time they stop by.

 

It is some work but nothing ordinary i think i can do it in under 2 weeks. What is your opinion?

Advantages:

- we can use any pool software,

- we have a sustainable system

- mining is not flooding with new coins but still profitable

- we have a base to work with

 

Disadvantages:

- POS may be harder to add anytime in the future..

[Skaro 129]

How would mining still be profitable if the reward drops to 0.95 FRC? Also, presently, the Foundation just takes money out of circulation. How is that sustainable?

Don't get me wrong, I generally like your ideas. I'm just posing the question. 

 

Merge mining, i think is great.

[Rik8119 242]

3 hours ago, Skaro said:

How would mining still be profitable if the reward drops to 0.95 FRC? Also, presently, the Foundation just takes money out of circulation. How is that sustainable?

Don't get me wrong, I generally like your ideas. I'm just posing the question. 

 

Merge mining, i think is great.

If its merge mining you run the client along with many other clients the  freicoins you get are additional to the coins you already get, so they are a gift it cost the miner no additional money, just a few resources..

The Foundation is taking the coins out of circulation but we could also take another address from the people dividend from fedde it was a question..

[Skaro 129]

So the other currencies pay for the mining and Freicoin gets a free ride? Interesting.

From the past we have learned that people felt the foundation was a scam. We should give a high priority to avoid that again. Conversely, the Foundation coins should be distributed transparently (a big problem is that they have nowhere good to go). Once the foundation coins have been spent (or somehow non existant), rerouting the demurrage would make sense. Also the demurrage would have to be distributed in a very transparent fair (presumably automated) way. So, sending the money to the Foundation or creating something similar again seems like a bad idea. Any divergence of funds should go to the people ASAP. 

I am inclined to think that having the possibility to divert funds built in for the future is a great idea but the amount, when, and how should evolve and discussed/tweaked with time.

But I put an unambiguous YES vote behind merge mining at this time.

Could you clarify what code you are discussing modifying. Is it p2pool or client or something else?

[Skaro 129]

maybe we could start by diverting 20% of demurrage, essentially for the purpose of slowly developing an infrastructure around it, starting with the Alliance faucet system.

 

[Rik8119 242]

The foundation was the idea to spread the coins completely automatically. IMHO this could not work. I totally agree that the coins should be spread as soon and as wide as possible. But to clarify my question is:

Do we want merge mining and a coin distribution organization, and if yes which one would it be? And yes the question when, how much and who maybe should be clarified before..

When we don't get consensus here there is no point for me to work on the freicoin client (0.8...)

[Arcurus 331]

to merge mining: how is it the merge mining going with your coin @Rik8119

Is it easy to bring the merge mining pools to upgrade?

pow security in the end depends on how much the coins are worth that are being mined.

 

I'm still sceptical of merge merging mainly because of these reasons:

- could be difficult to bring merge mining pools to upgrade, because they are not much involved in Freicoin. This is especially true if we plan to change the distribution of demurrage

- bitcoin mining hardware production is highly centralized, so in the end its only one person who dominates it (that's in long time true for all pow based coins)

- the true security in pow is in the end the value of the block reward. Economically merge mining does not improve that. Merge mining only makes it more difficult for non pool owners to attack, so it would make it more harder to attack for a normal person, but not more expensive to attack.

- we could use the resources / time spend io roll out merge mining in implementing other things like coin issuing or a true pos based solution.

 

merge mining would reduce the risk of a hash dump drastically, that's in away the most benefit of merge mining. 

This benefit could also be achieved through using an Freicoin unique mining alg.

 

To foundation issuing:

We could do as @Rik8119 suggested if the Freicoin Foundation does not wake up.

In the long run we for sure should do like @Rik8119 suggested or even better implement directly a decentralized pos or member based distribution. How this could look like i outlined allread here:  

 

Best would be if the Freicoin Foundation gets started so that we have enough time to implement the a decentralized distribution at once.

 

My suggestion for now would be:

1. Continue to try to wake of the Freicoin foundation

2. Starting with designing and implementing the pos based distribution.

If it goes well we solved two problems at once, we would have a much more secure coin and on the same time would have a distributed way of issuing the demurrage.

If the Freicoin Foundation does not wake up and if it takes too long time to implement above, then we could use in between what rik suggested.

 

To the numbers:

I would suggest using 20% as mining reward. 

[Rik8119 242]

to merge mining: how is it the merge mining going with your coin @Rik8119

Is it easy to bring the merge mining pools to upgrade?

pow security in the end depends on how much the coins are worth that are being mined.

 

1. It is going as planned. I had to change the chain ID that is needed to distinguish between different coins, if you have multiple merge mining coins running simultaneously but since then there were no problems.

2. They just have to download and compile the client, and include the new coin at startup. It is absolutely simple and can be done very fast.

3. Yes, but the only times that solidar mining stopped were when there is no exchange, like at the moment, so i hope fedde can bring the multiexchange code online ;-).

Of course there are downsides to merge mining but it is hell of a lot better than solo mining and as @maku pointed out there are difficulties with POS too.

Rik