3 more weeks until initial issuance is complete

[Skaro 129]

Great. Thanks Arcurus. Rik, Fedde, Fab, anyone? Your feelings on short-term, med-term, and long-term goals? working wallets and p2pool has to be on the list. For Friday, please.

[Rik8119 242]

Hi, nice to see movement around here.

I could write a long text to cover all the things that are discussed here, but as @Skaro said we all have a life and not only FRC, so i will write a short summary of my priorities:

Short term (before anything else):

Reintroduce tithe ratio to have funds for social purpose.

Short term:

Introduce a distribution mechanism for the funds (most likely a citizen dividend)

 

If those two points are filled we have achieved a lot. Centralization is a problem for bitcoin because its decentralized structure makes is slow and needs a high consents in the community for changes, that to a huge extend could be blocked by miners. That makes it slow but also resistant to attacks.

When you have a centralized organization it could change fast but is not as resilient. The thing is to find a golden way because some centralization is needed for social projects.

So in my eyes it could make sense to implement another mining method. A mix of POS/POW seems to be the most convenient way (there are examples and it doesn't give too much value to POS as POS is still viewed critical by many devs).

One thing should be very clear: If i'll be part of the development team or not, even the change to POS/POW could take a year development/discussion procedure, so we should be very clear of what we actually need.

@Arcurus I do not understand how a 2. lvl layer for mining works, so i have to look into it as well..
Rik

[Arcurus 331]

3 minutes ago, Rik8119 said:

I do not understand how a 2. lvl layer for mining works, so i have to look into it as well..

in dash layer 2 are the master nodes. They enforce on the layer 1, which is a normal blockchain with proof of work, that 45% of the block reward goes to master nodes and 10% to project founding. They also enforce, that instant transactions accepted by the master node layer are not double  spent in layer 1. Theoretically masternodes could agree on a block candidate that is then enforced to be used by layer 1. You cannot create masternodes out of thin air, because you need to have a security deposit of 1000 dash. Therefore masternodes behave similar to proof of stake. 

¨Reintroduce tithe ratio to have funds for social purpose.¨

Can you outline how this could be implemented?

[Rik8119 242]

1 hour ago, Arcurus said:

in dash layer 2 are the master nodes. They enforce on the layer 1, which is a normal blockchain with proof of work, that 45% of the block reward goes to master nodes and 10% to project founding. They also enforce, that instant transactions accepted by the master node layer are not double  spent in layer 1. Theoretically masternodes could agree on a block candidate that is then enforced to be used by layer 1. You cannot create masternodes out of thin air, because you need to have a security deposit of 1000 dash. Therefore masternodes behave similar to proof of stake. 

¨Reintroduce tithe ratio to have funds for social purpose.¨

Can you outline how this could be implemented?

Ok, maybe it's me but i don't see how this could help the distribution of the demurrage coins.

 

2. Include a check in the client that tests if a certain amount of the block reward goes to a defined foundation address.

[Arcurus 331]

3 minutes ago, Rik8119 said:

Ok, maybe it's me but i don't see how this could help the distribution of the demurrage coins.

the master node layer two enforces on the blockchain layer 1, that a certain percentage of the block reward to used for other things then mining.

demurrage is given out as block reward, so we could do it similar.

 

To 2: This would be implemented similar to the current foundation but with new addresses or? 

The por of this is, that it should be easy to implement, the con is, that it again puts in a central instance. 

What do others think, would it be fine to reintroduce that, or should we first implement stake voting / POS?

I think to implement POS could take a while so I would be in favor of using a centralised solution, as long as we bring the coins in circulation again.

With this we would also be independent of the Freicoin Foundation.

Alternative if the Freicoin Foundation is giving funds to distribute, this would give us enough time to first explore a true distributed solution.

[Arcurus 331]

As summary my suggestion is:

1. Starting with the Freicoin giveaway with Alliance Funds, because these are already matched at least partially from the Freicoin Foundation.

2. Getting direct support from the Freicoin Foundation for the giveaway

3. Depends on the Freicoin Foundation. If they support the giveaway we have enough time to implement a decentralized coin issuing, if not we can go for the centralized solution.

[Rik8119 242]

Sounds good to me though -looking f.e. at the DAO - i am not sure if a decentralized giveaway program could work like intended..

[Arcurus 331]

6 minutes ago, Rik8119 said:

Sounds good to me though -looking f.e. at the DAO - i am not sure if a decentralized giveaway program could work like intended..

I was talking about decentralising the coin issuing, not the giveway. 

Dash for example has decentralised voting on budgets. As long as you have at least partly proof of stake to hinder vote blocking through miners there is no reason why it should not function. 

[Arcurus 331]

Hi all,

I outlined now the freicoin giveaway / universal dividend project more in detail here:

Feel welcome to give some feedback!

[Skaro 129]

Oops. I missed a part. Reading at the bus stop....and I can't delete the previous comment. 

[Arcurus 331]

I posted here now a draft for a Freicoin roadmap:  https://freicoinalliance.com/topic/560-draft-freicoin-roadmap

And here a more detailed proposal for the Freicoin giveaway: https://freicoinalliance.com/topic/559-draft-universal-dividend-project

As always feels welcome to give your feedback! And thx for the great discussion nice to see so much engagement!

[Arcurus 331]

3 minutes ago, Skaro said:

Oops. I missed a part. Reading at the bus stop....and I can't delete the previous comment. 

but i can and i did

[Skaro 129]

I think lubricatung of the exchange is a good idea to keep volume steady, lower price volatility, and attract users.

i think the needs are different now then they were a month ago and what it will be in 3 months. So, a simpler application that can change might be useful. "Sign up and get $1000FRC!", might work well today. 

 

[Arcurus 331]

11 minutes ago, Skaro said:

"Sign up and get $1000FRC!", might work well today. 

we could start with that...

[Skaro 129]

How about something like: "Accept Freicoin as payment on your web site and get 100000FRC plus free advertising space at x,y,z."?

[Arcurus 331]

1 minute ago, Skaro said:

How about something like: "Accept Freicoin as payment on your web site and get 100000FRC plus free advertising space at x,y,z."?

i guess we are not there yet...

What we could do is, we could give out freicoins if you post a receipt buying / donating something with bitcoin / freicoin.

[Arcurus 331]

To get started here a simple solution:

100 coins if you signup with email and have an invitation

1000 coins if you sign up and verify with handy (no invitation required)

1 coin per day for email sign ups

10 coins per day for handy signups.

Invitations we give out.

[Arcurus 331]

I managed to reach jitmon on twitter:

for the giveaway, I would prefer that is done through the donation matching program, just another project with 100% matching or something, but that's my opinion

1 Std.vor 18 Minuten

 

rewarding rebases, absolutely, I'm already doing some preparations for 0.14 and 0.13, but mark did a rebase to 0.9 and that's has not been tested or reviwed yet

I wasn't able to compile it myself

1 Std.vor 16 Minuten

 

but it's there, moving to 0.9 would be an important step in the right direction but we really need more help with testing from the community

1 Std.vor 15 Minuten

 

for me it's easier to use irc and the mailing list but I will look it up. Please remind me if I forget again

1 Std.vor 13 Minuten

 

I'm on vacation without the computer but I will make an account if I don't forget

sorry that we're irresponsive often

1 Std.vor 10 Minuten

 

I neverreally paid much attention to th new forums. Nothing against them, just many other things to do or get distracted with (like bitcoin drama)

1 Std.vor 9 Minuten

 

oh yea the bitcoin drama

15 Min.Gesendet

 

 

moving 0.9 sounds great, just inform us when and how we can test, at best in the forum once you are ready.

with matching to start with we are fine with that, as long as the matching is happening.

6 Min.Gesendet

 

 

since some years now the matching from the alliance funds is only partially done. We could start the giv the alliance funds if the matchings are done. At best every month to have matchings would be great

4 Min.Gesendet

 

 

i guess that would be enough for now, just once a month matching and some sentence once a month how is it going with the client update and what we can do to help.

Diese Nachricht löschen

3 Min.Gesendet

 

[Arcurus 331]

 

 

i posted the conversion also in the alliance forum, so that others can read it

16 Min.Gesendet

 

 

in the longer run many in the community would want to have that some part of the demurrage is distributed to projects. The easiest way to implement it would be to make it like the current foundation. Like 20% to miners and 80% for projects. This part would be great to have distributed regularly through community vote. To start with the voting must not be done at the blockchain itself. I guess that Rik would be willing to help this implement.

8 Min.Gesendet

 

 

these 3 basic things is what would be great to have:

1. once a month a small life sing and update how we can help testing.

2. once in a month donation matching.

3. distribution of demurrage funds based on the community vote. For example 80% of the demurrage like we had with the freicoin foundation.

Diese Nachricht löschen

1 Min.Gesendet

 

[Arcurus 331]

As said i wasn't able to conpile myself, but freicoin/0.9 is te branch that needs testing in the bitcoin repo

2 Std.vor 2 Stunden

 

yeah, i forgot we still need to mobe fron 10 to 100% matching...

that's important

2 Std.vor 2 Stunden

 

rewarding distributing demurrage in other way than as aubsidy to miners, would be nice, republicoin or something. Whatever the mechanism, if it is acceptable for p2p, it is acceptable for theany funds we still need to distribute from the foundation, so first that

2 Std.vor 2 Stunden

 

i don't think distributing demurrage by "community vote" is acceptable, but whatever te proposal, should be tried with foundation funds first

2 Std.vor 2 Stunden

 

once a month donation matching, yeah, we should have started that long ago

for testing, 0.9 has been there for testing for long

2 Std.vor 2 Stunden

 

great! So as summary, you look into the donation matching so that it is done with 100% at least once a month. we look into testing 0.9

what would be great to have is a version to test that at least the main developers can compile, i dont know if we will otherwise manage to compile....

12 Min.Gesendet

 

 

with distributing the demurrage, i for my part fine with that to wait if we manage to bring the current donation matching to run.

11 Min.Gesendet

 

 

what would be great to have is to experiment with distributing one part lets say 100.000 coins per month directly to projects according to the donations (vote) they got. For example if one project has 10% of the donations for this month, it gets 10.000 coins.

7 Min.Gesendet

 

 

if we bring these two distribution mechanisms (donation matching / and vote distribution) to run at least once a month and have updated wallets, i think then the whole community is very happy.

5 Min.Gesendet

 

 

by the way, nice to talk to you it seems, like we can really move forward with Freicoin!

Diese Nachricht löschen

20 Sek.Gesendet

 

[Arcurus 331]

libgmp and libmpfr are specific to bitcoin

but we want to reuse things from elements in freicoin if te community wants it

Diese Nachricht melden Diese Nachricht löschen

4 Std.vor 4 Stunden

 

I want to help with rebasing to 0.14 and moving the foundation. web out of heroku mostly, probably improving it

4 Std.vor 4 Stunden

[Arcurus 331]

can we jump to 14 directly without 0.9?

51 Min.vor 19 MinutenGesendet

 

 

since 0.9 and 0.10 mostly just need testing,why not?

but yeah, teh next rebase we plan to do to 0.13 or 0.14 directly

[Arcurus 331]

yeah, I guess I can update the web even if we don't have the script to do it automatically yet

and yes we can start doing 100% for new matchings without having the code to retro-actively give 90% extra to the old yet

4 Std.vor 4 Minuten

 

I think monthly is good enough, but if it's set to do it automatically, I guess it should be easy to move it to weekly or even daily

Diese Nachricht melden Diese Nachricht löschen

and by automatically I mean maaku not having to run the current script every month

[Bicknellski 276]

Lurking...will read up and comment later this month.

 

[fedde 311]

I'll pull the handbrake on everybody when starting deep discussions, when the fundaments for the coin is not in place.

When i go back on posts during the years, alliance was put up to get things done, therefor the bounties. Now we talk about giving it all away... Is it just me that thinks this is stupid? What are we going to bounty with ? How can we support projects with a empty wallet?

Infrastructure needs fixing.

Pool software needs to be deployed and available. We have bounty for p2pool to get that going. Great! Maby we can look into merge mining on this too while we are at it. 
Other software could be:

• https://github.com/bonesoul/CoiniumServ
• https://github.com/UNOMP/unified-node-open-mining-portal
• https://github.com/zone117x/node-open-mining-portal  <-- old and no more development but does the job.

The three i listed here can accept higher speeds and are up to date (beside the last one)

Secondly it's the main wallets. These needs to be brought up to date, mainly for normal windows users. We penguin heads can usually compile the wallet from source to get a working QT client or use terminal  

You all talk about giveaways, bot's, dividens, liquidity while the network is halting and could end up in total caos if those fundamental things are not in place to secure the network flowing. If pool goes down, people can send as many coins they want, but they will not reach their destination unless you get the chain moving again. 

Time is also a large factor for people here. We do things on our free time, usually it's very limited, that people have to respect instead of throwing things "can't we make this, implent that, change this so it works like i want to". It drains ALOT of time those things too and again, time is limited. 

Let's hope i don't end up in a mental hospital locked up for good haha

PS: Nothing personal, just my head spinning