[FA Hangouts] Online meetings (Hangouts #1 - #4)

[fedde 311]

Ok now?

[Bicknellski 276]

Sorry, got doing something last night raging online and forgot... so sorry. Ill be available for a chat later tonight. Off to the food fair in Jakarta.

[Fabrizio 162]

Hmphf.. seems like I lost my notes from the beginning of the mumble chat with maaku  So I'll have to jot down very basic notes from that part. I have the rest of the talk recorded though, and will have time to summarize it hopefully during this evening

And from now on, since there is a separate forum section for these hangouts, we should maybe create own threads for each of the hangouts?

[fedde 311]

That was the ideea

[Arcurus 331]

Here a short summary from the 4.Hangout:

 

My connection was not so good, so please correct and add what I missed!

 

Making Freicoin to a sidechain of Bitcoin

- As far as I understood Maaku is thinking of making Freicoin to a sidechain of Bitcoin. What that would exactly mean for Freicoin I hope we will get more details soon.

 

Discussion of Proof of Stake (POS)

-  Currently Maaku is not so much in favor for proof of stake, but said that he will have a look into the paper I showed him [1].

 

As far as I understood maakus main arguments against POS:

-- 1. Stake voters can sign two chains without any cost

-- 2. more complicated

-- maybe more, but my connection was lost...

please add if I have forgotten something (maybe problems with making Freicoin to a sidechain of a POW based chain???)

 

My arguments was:

-- To 1. POS combination with Proof of work (POW) as outlined in this paper[1] can make it costly to sign more chains

--  UPDATE: To 1. even in pure POS if an POS voter signs two blocks, other POS voters can ignore his blocks and exclude him for an certain time. This "exclusion" can be done off chain. 

-- To 2. also in POW miners need to verify the hole chain  

-- currently we have no solution how to build something like republicoin* (in short POS voting) on an POW chain 

 

UPDATE:I opened now an new topic to discuss POW vs POS with more arguments then here: Feel free to take part!

http://freicoinalliance.com/topic/64-discussion-of-proof-of-stake-pos/

 

Republicoin

- Maaku said that republicoin is on hold until we have a solution, how we could build it on a POW chain

(in short miners could block votes if they control more then 50% of the mining power. The main problem here is, that miners could only let their votes pass and therefore get all coins).   

 

My argument here:

- if rebulicoin is mainly vote with coins (something like POS) also the chain itself should be secured with POS, then there is no problem   

 

Currently I am working on an more Detailed Proposal to that.

 

 

Donation matching:

- maaku said, that it will be raised to 100% if he and jitmon have a better automatic donation cycling detection included.

- until that happens donation matching will increased to 25%

My Argument here was:

- so or so coins can be cycled with using exchanges and so on

- therefore we should better concentrate on making limits per org and requiring more transparency if an org reaches the limit as outlined in [3].

UPDATE: Maybe we should concentrate more the "Stake voting proposal"[2] that would have not the problem of donation cycling and would be more near to the rebublicoin idea. 

  

- maaku talked also with Fab about my proposal of advancing the donation matcher [3]. 

(Sadly my connection was lost, as far as I have understood Fab said, that he will look into that and that maaku will provide some test infrastructure 

 

Registering the Alliance for Donation Matching

- Registering the Alliance should be fine. The Alliance must not necessarily be an Non Profit as long as the mission statement fits the Freicoin foundations mission statemet.

- like all other projects that want to apply for donation matching, the Freicoin Foundation directors must vote on that after the Alliance is applies for donation matching.

 

 

That was it as far as I can remember.

Please add or correct if I have forgotten something!

 

 

All the good,

Arcurus

 

[1] Proof of Activity: Extending Bitcoin’s Proof of Work via Proof of Stake 

http://eprint.iacr.org/2014/452.pdf

 

[2] Stake voting based giveaway - to make experiments with coin voting
http://freicoin.freeforums.org/application-to-add-an-second-issuing-mechanism-t730.html

 

[3] http://freicoinalliance.com/topic/55-advancing-the-donation-matcher/

[Fabrizio 162]

- maaku talked also with Fab about my proposal of advancing the donation matcher [3]. 

(Sadly my connection was lost, as far as I have understood Fab said, that he will look into that and that maaku will provide some test infrastructure 

 

[3] http://freicoinalliance.com/topic/55-advancing-the-donation-matcher/

Yup, maaku agreed on everything on the OP; currently the matching is running with bare minimums to make it functional.

I asked about the possibility of having the matching in the testnet side, and maaku will setup the necessary tools:

Discussed this with maaku on the FA Hangout #4, he can provide hosting for website / tools that are needed. He will also set up the needed accounts/addresses (so that the foundation keys cannot be lost/compromised) in the testnet side when he has the time for it 

Addition to this: The matcher logs the activity, so can be parsed through to show the data in easy to read format

Also, asked how long it usually takes for Foundation to approve the project after submitting the request -> Not long, like a day. After approval, addresses etc. info creation is automated.

[Arcurus 331]

UPDATE:I opened now an new topic to discuss POW vs POS with more arguments then here: Feel free to take part!

http://freicoinalliance.com/topic/64-discussion-of-proof-of-stake-pos/