Rik8119

If this could be done it only just shifts our problems into the future: Freicoin has no sustainable redistribution mechanism, concentrating power on the miners.
The other big problem is attention. Only projects that hare some fancy new tech are recognized and make new aths every few weeks. All is concentrated on them and people cant look through all those commercials (there are now facebook adds for Ethereum ICOs), to see that 90% of these are made of hot air.. But as many dont recognize those who see it have to follow the masses to make profits.
Im totally annoyed by this system but there is not much we can do about it atm. I think what Freicoin needs are two things: 1 a sustainable redistribution system QE for people not for miners 2. Another global depression.
In the end freicoin could only be prepared (what it is not).

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. This is also what i was thinking.

Well if we want to compare it to Bitcoin - which does not make sense IMHO - i ask myself what the community would say if the core devs would decide to increase the coin supply by 5?
I can not imaginge atm that a social purpose can be decentralized. BItcoin f.e. is not decentralized either. 1m is owned by Satoshi and there are a handful pool and a few groups of devs ruling the bord.
Woergl f.e. was the most successful freigeld currency and they used it to pay for social infrastructure. And IMHO it is the only reasonable purpose to redistribute money to the poor.
I dont really see how it is fair to those that invest in FRC in the past dont follow the forum and one day wake up with an extreme amount of FRC pumped in mining - what in the end will lower the price and interest in the coin.

> So basically remove the demurrage feature that inspired freicoin in the first place and makes it unique. I strongly oppose this.
Yes, I believe that the current system will keep us from growing, it is not a coincidence that we are among the smallest coins out there.
And the reason I believe that the 100 mil coins is a bad idea is that i dont want to see Freicoin priced at 1 satoshi, comeon lets make this coin grow with some new thinking, there must be a way that we all can agree.

Of the proposed options i say 1 or 4.
The coins should be destroyed, and that it takes time to reach 100 mil is good.
To be honest i think 100 mil is too much either way and its not a good number.
28 or close to is much better and closer to Bitcoin.
But it has to work for the miners too.

Well if we want to compare it to Bitcoin - which does not make sense IMHO - i ask myself what the community would say if the core devs would decide to increase the coin supply by 5?
I can not imaginge atm that a social purpose can be decentralized. BItcoin f.e. is not decentralized either. 1m is owned by Satoshi and there are a handful pool and a few groups of devs ruling the bord.
Woergl f.e. was the most successful freigeld currency and they used it to pay for social infrastructure. And IMHO it is the only reasonable purpose to redistribute money to the poor.
I dont really see how it is fair to those that invest in FRC in the past dont follow the forum and one day wake up with an extreme amount of FRC pumped in mining - what in the end will lower the price and interest in the coin.

Ill go with Option 1

We are now many forum contributors and long time supporters that strongly believe that the foundations coins should not be released into circulation and the miners, if the timeframe is 10-100 years then fine but not in a quick pace as it will just crash the price, we dont need freicoin priced at 1 satoshi and it would not be fair to current holders of Freicoin.
What freicoin need is something to support growth of price and to be very attractive to their speculators. 
My personal opinion is that the foundations coins of 80% should be locked in a blockchain time contract and that demurrage should be drawn from there only and not from speculators/normal wallets. 
The second step (my personal opinion) would be to allow a proof of stake interest of about 2% so that holders will be rewarded for holding and not selling.
Further we could have a small transaction fee that gets burnt but probably a no fee system is better in marketing purpose.
Then what we need is a big marketing effort, designing a great website, promote our exchange and relaunch this coin on bitcointalk.
We have the opportunity to really grow here, lets make that happen instead of the opposite, people are really scared of investing in a coin that lose 5% of value yearly, it needs to be modified.

That was my vote too.. We have to wait what @jtimon says about it.

Well anyway, Freicoin without demurrage is not Freicoin. Without demurrage, it just becomes a crappy 2014 clone of Bitcoin. You could POS or change the hash protocol, but there is no originality there. How many clones from 2014 are significant today? The top 20 list of crypto-currencies now are 50% coins in ICO (ie not even existing),Ethereum, and Ethereum copies which are at best multi-million dollar templates for Azure. Meanwhile we have a bunch of mouth frothing 'investors' creating self fulfilling prophecies from technical 'analysis' while everything is simply correlating to BTC. What, am I the only one that has ever made and LOST money on the stock exchange? You can't remember the downside?
Like the guy in that excellent Facebook post copied above said, when people really start using crypto currencies for buying things (as opposed to 'investing') a measure against inflation-deflation-speculation-hoarding will be very attractive. Also, it is a real solution that has been repeatedly applied in the past; ie there is a need. Freicoin is unique in this. It is regarded and listed in all books as innovative for demurrage. What is a currency 'investor' anyway? That term doesn't even exist. It's just mouth frothing lunacy piggy backing on Bitcoin developer's hard work. And there are more than enough bigger as#%les in the finance world that will eat them up.
The Foundation simply didn't work. It was supposed to be dissolved by having distributed all its funds by now. And yes, It should go, in a transparent verifiable, and fair way.

@Adilado welcome to Freicoin.
What brought you to Freicoin? Have you read what Freicoin is about or do you just search for coins to invest in?
Currntly in Freicoin the situation is this:
the core developer of Freicoin became core developers of Bitcoin, since then they are super busy.
Freicoin 0.9 is ready to be used thx to @fedde, but is still under testing.
@Rik8119 wants to port Freicoin code to 0.14
 
Currently there is a discussion how we proceed with the Freicoin Foundation that holds 80% of the coins.
It looks like that the foundation coins will be brought into circulation through mining.
We are thinking about adding a soft fork, that allows using some part of the redistributed coins for Freicoin related projects.
But this is not set in stone yet.
 
@fedde is mainly working on bringing more currencies to Freiexchange.
He also planned to setup a web wallet so that Freicoin will be easy to use.
 
@Adilado thx for your interest, i hope i could answer your questions.
 

I think we are on to something, cant wait for more feedback.
People would go nuts for Freicoin and at the same time the original values would be intact.

That would be something for the @Mark Friedenbach and @jtimon as they handle the foundations funds. If they could use those coins on @fedde 's exchange with BTC and what other coins will come and every address has a time/FRC ratio (like POS) that will pay you those tokens that would be something very special and of course doable, if we find no other usage for the foundation coins!

I feel this coin is in good hands, its not created out of thin air. Lets make it great together. Its good to keep the original philosophy if we can just make it profitable and interesting for investors.
 
Just a crazy idea:
Demurrage is used to buy other crypto tokens that the owner of the account get in his own freicoin wallet. The wallet for example support Ethereum tokens and they can be stored there. This would give the freicoin holder other valuable coins while the freicoin coins get burnt, freicoin supply decrease over time. Win win. 
And people would love it.
OR as we have the exchange already, they just get small amount of BTC for holding freicoin. If the freicoin holder wants to they can just buy more freicoin.

As i already said, it is needed to have that refheight, because the transaction could be included later on and your wallet need to be locked until the transaction is confirmed also it wont be possible to empty wallets in a exact way, because the amount available is lower than the original. Maybe you want to contact @jtimon he maybe can explain it better than me..
And no, sadly there is no guide to modify bitcoin in the way needed ;-) ..

Its a necessity. Think of it this way: you can lock a transaction for a certain time lets say 50k blocks (a year). After that it is included into a block. Since there is no information in the transaction when it was send, no demurrwge can be calculated.. And the whole demurrage idea is useless

@Rik8119well actually that was as far as I got. I wasn't sure what kind of effort @jtimon was wanting to make. So I'm not sure how complex the idea could/should be. But it seemed that a new wallet with POS/POW split could distribute the Foundation funds. The demurrage is still a good idea and may be more attractive now with countries legalizing crypto-currencies.With a wallet at 0.14, Freicoin becomes modern and it could literally be a relaunch with The Foundation funds for redistribution. We could even have an ico (or I guess it would be a co)... ;-)

@Arcurus combining destroying the Foundation with a soft fork, a wallet release, and alternative distribution mechanism  would be ideal. It could be marketed as almost a relaunch of Freicoin too. 
 
But i wanted to mention that there are something like 680000  distinct public address that have been generated. Probably most are change adresses that have tiny balances (I can actually do these queries relatively easily with readable keys with the way I have the explorer set up on my PC). Maybe many addresses are abandonned, but a vast majority probably belong to the mining pool (This should be partially varifiable linking addresses in the blockchain).  The method of selection you proposed would probably just transfer most of the money to the mining pool(s).
I would be quite interested to  do analytics to help this endeavor. It may be better to something like generate a list of unlinked adresses having max 80000 FRC and min 500 FRC that have performed more than 5 transactions. The query can be updated regularly and the addresses could be chosen then randomly, without replacement.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. This is also what i was thinking.

If this could be done it only just shifts our problems into the future: Freicoin has no sustainable redistribution mechanism, concentrating power on the miners.
The other big problem is attention. Only projects that hare some fancy new tech are recognized and make new aths every few weeks. All is concentrated on them and people cant look through all those commercials (there are now facebook adds for Ethereum ICOs), to see that 90% of these are made of hot air.. But as many dont recognize those who see it have to follow the masses to make profits.
Im totally annoyed by this system but there is not much we can do about it atm. I think what Freicoin needs are two things: 1 a sustainable redistribution system QE for people not for miners 2. Another global depression.
In the end freicoin could only be prepared (what it is not).

+1 for me just having demurrage is not what inspired me to support Freicoin
I invested in Freicoin with the promise that i could use these to get donation matching to encourage to support further projects. 
i understand that you want to close down the foundation. but simply increasing the mining reward and therefore inflate the coins it not what was promised.
if you want to bring the coins into circulation do that now and not in a constant drain through mining.
i don't see how higher mining rewards will benefit the coin, more coins means simply less price per coin.
if Freicoin stays like it is now with just demurrage to miners i'm out.
 
At best i would see if the coins would be distributed as negative exchange fees. this will bring liquidity which is most important for a currency.
 
 

Thanks for the answer,
maybe its just me but i invested my time and money because i wanted to support demurrage used for common good. Usiing the funds to donate to social projects fulfilled that purpose. Supporting mining isnt what i had in mind, though it was in the code from the beginning.

as @Rik8119 said option 2 is not fair to investors.

Thanks everyone for sharing your views!

> Woergl f.e. was the most successful freigeld currency and they used it to pay for social infrastructure. And IMHO it is the only reasonable purpose to redistribute money to the poor.

The purpose of freigeld is not to redistribute money to the poor, but rather remove the existence of poverty under the assumption that is caused by chronic interest and cyclic monetary velocity.

> option 2 is not fair to investors.

I don't see why not. The coins were planned to be put in circulation either way.
As "investor" I don't consider it unfair. 

Well if we want to compare it to Bitcoin - which does not make sense IMHO - i ask myself what the community would say if the core devs would decide to increase the coin supply by 5?
I can not imaginge atm that a social purpose can be decentralized. BItcoin f.e. is not decentralized either. 1m is owned by Satoshi and there are a handful pool and a few groups of devs ruling the bord.
Woergl f.e. was the most successful freigeld currency and they used it to pay for social infrastructure. And IMHO it is the only reasonable purpose to redistribute money to the poor.
I dont really see how it is fair to those that invest in FRC in the past dont follow the forum and one day wake up with an extreme amount of FRC pumped in mining - what in the end will lower the price and interest in the coin.