Bicknellski

3:30 pm WIB. Jakarta Time.

1:25 hours from the time I posted this message.

LINK has countdown clock.

https://blab.im/darin-m-bicknell-freicoin-alliance-weekly-podcast-e01s01-1

My students are ready to receive and divide up the 200.000 FRC Arc suggested.

Challenges:

1. Android FRC Wallet where can they download it?
2. Iphone FRC Wallet where can they download it?
3. I have asked one student to take the donation directly and then distribute it. I will have her post a note in the forum here for that with wallet information.

How should we proceed?

On 5/17/2015 at 4:45 AM, Fabrizio said:

Hey Rik Hope you're doing well.

Indeed it seems the link is broken. I had the installer(s) still on my phone, so uploaded it here:
wallet-0.2.0-BETA.apk

 

or the older version here:

FRCwallet-0.1-ALPHA.apk

Not available. Links dead.

I have asked my students to use the mobile wallet for Freicoin to get payment from the Freicoin Alliance. One student will distribute the 200.000 FRC to the rest of the students as soon as we can get her a mobile version on her android phone. Is there are iphone version? As some of the students have Iphones.

Blab is open to all. I think it is ok since most of our plans are freely online on this forum anyhow.

Agenda for tomorrow Fab?

Yes have a greenhouse / mining operation seems a viable option. Tomatoes for Freicoins.

Noted. Wow. Big changes.

Update? Not working.

Do we have an information or FAQ type area for new people potentially?

Also the Freicoin Price Index is not working.

Still looking for Freicoins Molly?

I will try and recover what I have on my computer but I would be willing to sell some via paypal.

I would like to suggest a standing meeting time for Blab.im. It is an open video chat format that we can record and upload to YouTube.

One thing we are lacking is a following. Miners particularly and given the weakness of the coin it might be important that we do more to be inclusive. I think an open format where we can discuss Freicoin and a universal income might be a good way to draw more subscribers to Freicoin.

Here is the first Blab come talk about Freicoin here everyone. We can adjust the time. All you need is a twitter account.

https://blab.im/darin-m-bicknell-freicoin-alliance-presents-the-future-of-freicoin-a-digital-currency

Tuesday January 12th @ 11:00am Jakarta Time 

See you there everyone. Let us discuss the FUTURE of FREICOIN. The Freicoin Report will be a weekly show for the FA. I will be there each week. If you want to change the time let me know I am available anytime to do this.

I will host and moderate.

Show Notes:

1. Basic introduction of Freicoin.

2. Introduction of FA members in attendance.

3. Discuss the Future of Freicoin.

4. Audience Q & A.

5. Basic information on how to contact the Freicoin Alliance.

Yes that be good. Need to start using the FRC we have more often. 

I don't see a lot of use of the coin currently other than dumping on the market.

I will match that as soon as straighten out my FRC wallets.

Thanks Fed. I will donate something something soon.

I am going to be asking our students to develop dutch bucket hydroponic systems that can help feed small families. This is something that can be subsidized as we are going to give labor freely as well as demonstrating to poor families how to maintain dutch bucket systems.

This might be worthy of donations. I will have to brief my students and do a pilot project in school first then expand out to the community, 

Humans Need Not Apply is a 2014 short Internet documentary film, directed, produced, written, and edited by C. G. P. Grey. The film focuses on the future of the integration of automation into economics, as well as the worldwide workforce.

Grey & Brady introduce themselves after 18 episodes, working in public on the Internet, humblebragging revisited, a list of words that we mostly can't say on the podcast, the sacred space of calendars and 8 ways robots will take your job. 

This is why your idea is an EXCELLENT ONE although someone has to pay for the mining / transaction upkeep of the Freicoin network. The 80% collected should also go to the idea. We are going to need it when 40 to 60% unemployment worldwide happens soon. Look at automation in China. Jobs are being lost at an alarming rate already there.

Bank of England could set NEGATIVE interest rate: Move would mean that rather than earning money, savers would be charged for keeping their cash in the bank

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3240086/Interest-rates-need-cutting-zero-says-Bank-England-s-Haldane.html

I think given the lack of support inflation to 0% is weak argument given now we have only a few machines even mining FRC.

At this point no action might be best given there is no real activity mining or otherwise on the coin.

Back to the Freicoin Foundation:

The github version of the website says (freico.in seems to be down)

Q: When, in the future, will all the coins have been distributed?

A: About 3 years after the project launched (December 2012), which means sometimes in 2015 or 2016.

 

Sorry Mark... I was not mistaken. Obviously if you want to change the PLAN go right ahead. But to be honest this is not good for the coin to now break that promise. There are other points posted in several threads where the 3 years after launch the distribution was to take place http://freicoin.freeforums.org/demurrage-should-it-all-go-to-miners-t20-60.html. If the foundation was unable to meet it's projections then an alternative was stated that it could be destroyed. I don't want to go through all the forums and track it down but I will just stand on the github declaration and expect that the foundation does SOMETHING about distribution to meet the obligation to 'distribute' ALL the coins before Q1 in 2016.

Semantics aside. Distribution must happen at least by early 2016 as promised unless someone is waiting for the value of the coin to magically increase and make a windfall the current value of the foundation frc is minimal and is not worth the time to distribute at this point. If destruction doesn't happen it is well within the rights of the current user base of 10 or so miners left, that keep the coin alive today, to hard fork the coin.

Re: Demurrage - should it all go to miners?

by maaku » Sun Aug 19, 2012 12:00 am

It is not a strong argument, but my gut instinct is that it would be impossible to come up with something better and significantly different.

No matter what we do, some decision has to be made about distribution of demurrage funds. Right now we've inherited from Bitcoin the position that the decision is made by dictatorial decree by us, the core developers, with a roadblock written in so that a hard-fork would be required if we change our minds about how to do it.

But for any of the ideas talked about in this thread, we'd fundamentally be talking about giving up control over distribution of demurrage to some body of individuals. Some proposals require simply lifting the hard-fork protection so the we, the benevolent dictators can specify the distribution plan. At the other extreme, the demurrage is sent to some external body (a foundation, perhaps) and they decide what to do with it. In either case you can ask the question: what's preventing us (the developers) or them (the foundation) from making poor decisions? Answer: nothing.

What I proposed above was a mechanism for decentralizing this decision-making process, and creating a sort of frei-zone “economic congress”. What was it that is said about democracy--that it's the least-objectionable option? “The worst system out there, except for all the others.” I know there's a famous quote to that effect. The proposal for a frei-zone economic congress to manage demurrage is, I think, with all its checks, balances, and weighted franchise the worst option... except for all the others that have or might be proposed.

I find it odd and more than a little ironic to be weighing the pros and cons of various political frameworks traditionally employed by coercive states (being a pacifist libertarian/anarchist/individualist myself). But in this case we are talking about the management of a community-owned collected resource, which makes the problem domain very similar to that of a tax-supported state (except that in our case the community resource is collected non-coercively and therefore morally). So I'm not surprised to find a similar solution space.

By the way, I forgot to mention that there would remain an ultimate check on the power of the economic congress: the hard-fork option. The a majority of individual users could decide this whole deliberative process isn't working and revert to the original rule: demurrage goes to the miners, or some variant thereof. The miners would obviously support this, and it is probably what would happen if the stakeholders were obviously corrupt.

Send me some kria: 135p91ruUUVwX6WEBSPHwFb4ycr9DaZFpX

maaku   Posts: 370 Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 9:36 pm

 

 

Maybe destruction and the END of the foundation is the best course of action as this would free up Mark and others from the needless burden of overseeing the impossible distribution since this debate is over nearly 4 years old now what makes anyone think there is a viable solution? Again the goal was 3 years distribution... to carry out another 3 years or 10 years or etc seems to me to be a waste of time and effort given there is no 'community' at this stage willing to engage in distribution / liberation of Foundation funds. Time to cut the losses and simply destroy the coins and focus on the coin development after Q4 2015 or before the end of Q1 2016. The best option would be to take the decision out of Mark's hands and hard fork to kill that 80% used by the foundation ending the debate and pushing the foundation and distribution question to the graveyard where it belongs. Retain the demurrage and move on as Arc says looking for solutions to other issue plaguing the coin like poor numbers in the USER end of things.

Seems to me a waste of resources currently to even bother with a foundation that really doesn't exist other than on paper and has done little or nothing since 2013 to solve the distribution problem as they originally mandated. Any solution admittedly requires a healthy and functioning coin with a large stable user base which we have never really seen at all on FRC. At this stage how many actual users of Freicoin are there? 100? 10? 1? I suggest it is in the teens not even hundreds at this point and as such the foundation has no user base to query or ask help from or to even distribute the little value which is somewhat less than $90,000 USD from that 80% at current exchange rates. We need to be honest the coin is limping along barely as it is and resources need to be focused on problems that have solutions. Foundations and distribution issues could easily be resolved with destruction in December 2015. 

 

 

Re: Demurrage - should it all go to miners?

by cipherpunk » Fri Apr 19, 2013 9:45 pm

Hello folks (my first post here).

A little bit of background: I'm a long-time BTC user who initially heard about it due to involvement with the I2P project crew. I have always been worried about the effects of deflation on the Bitcoin ecosystem (even foreseeable deflation at the time when inflation is still occurring). I am happy to notice that other people are concerned about this too.

I was informed about this project by an acquaintance at a local autonomous social centre, and so I came, read the introduction, and immediately wanted to offer criticism.

- First, I fully support the idea of implementing a cryptocurrency which involves a demurrage fee. I don't see a particular difference in whether it should be distributed to only to miners, or to all accounts, or to accounts meeing certain criteria, as long as it is not distributed to any central authority.

 

- Secondly, I totally oppose the idea of tasking *any* foundation with the distribution of 80% of the initial money supply. I consider this proposal (found here: http://freico.in/how/ ) shortsighted and would not dare to invest my computational resources into a system which empowers a third party so heavily. I recommend that people consider altering this feature of the project, even if it means backing down from many plans. A currency system should not be based on trust towards a central authority, even during the initial phase of its deployment. With this move you would make yourself a target of great suspicion (in addition to real attacks (hacking, regulation), if your project should be going well and Freicoin should be developing a market value).

 

by Bicknellski » Tue Apr 23, 2013 3:19 am

Too late.

On both points.

So now will you work with us to distribute the coin from the foundation? Or should we just simply destroy the coins and let them run back only to the miners?

My argument for having some sort of autonomous and democratic distribution that is not mining stems from the wholly undemocratic nature of mining and the consolidation in few hands that it is evident in most if not all coins. If you have a better version of distribution that can reach more people more equitably then please offer it up as far as I can tell most bitcoin true believers have one major blind spot and that is mining is a fair system of distribution. It is not.

A "central" authority that is able to distribute Freicoin more efficiently and more equitably even if flawed is far superior in my mind given the fact the majority of people on the planet will never have access to mining. I strongly feel that distribution of ANYTHING requires some human involvement at this point in time until there is some universal technology in the hands of billions (Handphones?).

"Kria" Me: FRC 133CM8oGe2xybSkeh8fLvpn5FNtdeDDzDe 

THE FREICOIN ALLIANCE Join us today, to promote Freicoin into the future!

 

I will review this... thanks for the heads up Mark.

My only question really is that the 80% of foundation funds not distributed by December 2015 will they be 'destroyed' as per the original commitment?

As it was stated clearly initially that the 80% was to be redistributed completely within 3 years of launch and if that failed to happen the funds would be simply destroyed if I am not mistaken. 

I would register if they give 1:1 not 1:0.1  that is not what I call a good way to distribute funds. They are going to have to destroy 80% of the coins in December. Registering for a few Kria here and there won't help.

Well meals are logistically, for us, way too hard to do as we have to find the needy kids in the local area and their parents usually provide meals we are keen on education as that is often that last thing that parents provide for. Some projects have tried to help but the money sometimes goes to parents and immediate needs for housing and what not and not education. We will review this. As for Africa the school I am interested in supporting could use funds for buying a bus to help transport more poor kids to school who would normally walk 2 hours to and from school.

I will start thinking about this idea more after our graduation on Saturday and my final reports to parents on student progress on Monday.

Ya that is not possible Arc the students I have are not the end users. These are poor kids dealing with government or other schools that require school fees etc.

What I see there is no way to register remotely if there is no way to exchange to fiat locally.

CMS Students register, get funds, exchange funds and then pay for needy kids school fees locally is the only way this could happen.

We have completed the build for the basics for the solar charger but we have 1 dead LiFePo4 battery that we need to get RMA on so I am working on that. We also got a quote on installing a solar array at our school.

Here is the 50W panel battery pack charging power banks from used laptop batteries we repurposed.

I have two places that I can help get students involved. One is Africa and the other obviously Indonesia. My issue is how to make the system easier to get funds in the hands of students so they can pay for their educational needs.

How do these kids go from Freicoin to local Fiat? 

That is the hanger I see.

Keen on 1. Charity for poor kids in our urban area using the basic income idea. 2. Solar Array for our school students raise / earn the money to get the solar array.