Bicknellski

Freicoin Loan - Learning to Make Chocolate

58 posts in this topic

Freicoiners,

Our school is again interested in getting a microloan in Freicoin so 4 students and 1 teacher can go and get a 3-hour morning program with professional chefs in gourmet chocolate making. http://www.chocolateschool.org/

Here is the email we received today:

Quote

Dear Mr Bicknell,
 

1)This is a class that will last for about three hours: 9,30am - 12.30 pm approximately.
 
2)The students will work with real couverture, chocolate (56% cocoa content)  and artisanal  quality ingredients.
 
3) After a short introduction on chocolate making process, bean to bar,  the students don aprons and  will watch a demonstration of the correct way of Melting Chocolate and tempering (preparing chocolate for use in making products.
 
4)They will then make three chocolate bars, milk, white and dark themselves with infusions (dried fruits and nuts) by themselves guided by our chefs. When completed the bars are placed in the chiller for cooling.
 
5)While the bars are being cooled to solidify, the students will make moulded pralines with ganache (also made by them under guidance).

6)They will make 24 pieces each. the moulds are then cooled in the chiller.
 
7) Bars and pralines are demoulded and packed in boxes for the students to take home. All packaging is provided.
 
 Cost per student is Rp 750,000 payable on the day at the School. Bookings should be made at least a week ahead. The Course will be conducted in English and Bahasa Indonesia.
 
Please contact me if there are any further questions.
 
Best regards
 
Mervyn Pereira

Principal

 

We are asking for a loan of 5,000,000 Rupiah so that we can pay for the morning class and get some supplies to start making chocolate bars and pralines that we will sell to pay off the loan. We would like to have another 0% interest loan that we can repay by the 3rd term of school. That would give us the 30 weeks to repay the loan through the sales of our chocolate bars and pralines.

 

http://coinmill.com/FRC_IDR.html

A loan of 610,000 FRC at that rate quoted in coinmill.

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Hi Bicknellski, i am interested. What is the exact plan? Will you use the FRC to pay the workshop and buy it back from the exchange afterwards? I guess you need Rupiah/$/BTC. So will you exchange it first? Greetings Rik

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I'm interested to. As we spoke a bit earlier we should get some sort of micro loan website up 😊 

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Hi Bick,

5,000,000  Rupia is currently 380 dollar = 38 Freihours

I would nominate the loan in Freihours, Freicoin doesnt have enough liquidity currently.

Freicoin price on virco is bettween 0.000001 BTC and 0.000005 BTC

So I would loan directly in BTC.

Nevertheless we could support the project with some Alliance Funds.

All the good to Indonesia,

Martin

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On 20.8.2016 at 4:55 PM, Arcurus said:

Hi Bick,

5,000,000  Rupia is currently 380 dollar = 38 Freihours

I would nominate the loan in Freihours, Freicoin doesnt have enough liquidity currently.

Freicoin price on virco is bettween 0.000001 BTC and 0.000005 BTC

So I would loan directly in BTC.

Nevertheless we could support the project with some Alliance Funds.

All the good to Indonesia,

Martin

Good idea..

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Yea'yuh! I'll support this as well :) 
I'd also think, along with @Arcurus, that nominating the loan in FreiHours at this point could be more stable option? And also would see this project be something to support with the FA funds :) 

On what date is the workshop starting? 

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Sorry... been very busy.

Let me review your posts and update.
 

On 8/14/2016 at 10:39 AM, Rik8119 said:

Hi Bicknellski, i am interested. What is the exact plan? Will you use the FRC to pay the workshop and buy it back from the exchange afterwards? I guess you need Rupiah/$/BTC. So will you exchange it first? Greetings Rik

Rik the plan is we accept loan in Freicoin. We exchange it for Bitcoin and convert to Rupiah. Reason is the school where we want to take the course will not accept FRC or BTC only Rupiah. So as before the students will exchange FRC for BTC for Rupiah. And when we pay it back we pay convert our chocolate sales from Rupiah to BTC to FRC to pay back the zero interest loan.


1. FRC to BTC on https://freiexchange.com
2. BTC to Rupiah on https://www.bitcoin.co.id/
3. Rupiah to BTC on https://www.bitcoin.co.id/
4. BTC to FRC on https://freiexchange.com 
5. Students pay back the FRC loan to lenders.

bitcoin.co.id.png

On 8/14/2016 at 3:29 PM, fedde said:

I'm interested to. As we spoke a bit earlier we should get some sort of micro loan website up 😊 

Now if Fedde can make a BTC Jam site where we can provide all the details and Alliance members can become lenders even better.
 

On 8/20/2016 at 9:55 PM, Arcurus said:

Hi Bick,

5,000,000  Rupia is currently 380 dollar = 38 Freihours

I would nominate the loan in Freihours, Freicoin doesnt have enough liquidity currently.

Freicoin price on virco is bettween 0.000001 BTC and 0.000005 BTC

So I would loan directly in BTC.

Nevertheless we could support the project with some Alliance Funds.

All the good to Indonesia,

Martin

If we just take a loan in BTC that would be ok. Student will still need to make exchange on Bitcoin.co.id and back to pay off the BTC loan.
But hopefully we agree to an interest free loan and something maybe locked into Rupiah vs. BTC so we don't have issues with exchange like last time be best. I like the idea of Freihours to Rupiah as well as long as we don't have any significant exchange losses either way to either party.

So we would be looking at 5 million rupiah to cover the chocolate training program and some chocolate for stock to make the specialty chocolates that we will sell. Or make a set exchange rate for Freihours to Rupiah so there is no issues when we want to repay our loan to lenders.

 

On 8/23/2016 at 9:30 PM, Fabrizio said:

Yea'yuh! I'll support this as well :) 
I'd also think, along with @Arcurus, that nominating the loan in FreiHours at this point could be more stable option? And also would see this project be something to support with the FA funds :) 

On what date is the workshop starting? 

Fab the date or Month would be in September or October class given they only do 1 class like this per month. I would like to do this in September so we can be ready for October - December selling our chocolates before the Fall and Christmas breaks. Also this gives students a 12 to 15 week program of work on this area and gives us plenty of time to earn enough money to pay back the loan by January or February of 2017. Obviously I the school is going to back the loan in the event students fail to sell enough chocolates or there is a short fall. The last program we ran was a complete success and given the nature of this new program I am confident it will be very successful.

Email I got from Jonah at Tulip.

 
Quote

Dear Mr. Bicknell,

We have the class for Morning Class on 15 of September, Sir.

Just inform direct to join with us for the next class.

Thank you and have a blessed Tuesday

John Royle Candi (Jonah)
Marketing Communications
 
Chocolate School by TULIP
Bellezza Shopping Arcade Lt3
Jl. Arteri Soepeno No34
Permata Hijau, Jakarta 12210
Indonesia
Phone         62-8111-502-688
Whatsapp    62-896-7013-7383
Facebook    Chocolate School by Tulip
Instagram    chocolateschoolbytulip
 

 

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Hi, glad you found the time to answer.

So the plan is that we split the funding between us 4 @fedde @Fabrizio @Arcurus and myself.

We each pay equal amounts of money as an interest free loan.

And the students pay back the loan to each of us using our bitcoin addresses.

Sounds quite fair for me.

Can you shoot some photos then during the event for some PR?

Greeting Rik

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Yes, there will be a student in charge of the communication / picture taking etc and will keep you all updated to our progress with fortnightly reports.

We will add a post here to this thread as basic terms like we did before for the cooking loan we got 2 years ago.

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I have reserved a space for Chocolate School but payment doesn't have to be made until we arrive at the school on the day of program. I'd prefer to make sure the loan is active (we receive the Bitcoin) no later than Wednesday next week but earlier would be better. So that the students can help process the Bitcoin to Rupiah and report back to the lenders. 

That would mean that each of you will loan us 9.5 Freihours or 1.250.000 Rupiah or

1,250,000.00 IDR = 94.10202 USD
Indonesian Rupiah US Dollar
1 IDR = 0.0000752816 USD 1 USD = 13,283.45 IDR

Convert againUSD/IDR thumbnailView ChartMid-market rates: 2016-08-31 03:28 UTC
at the current exchange rate on xe.com. We intend to repay $380.00 US (38 Freihours or 5.000.000Rp) at zero interest in two installments although it is likely we may repay the whole loan sooner if our sales on chocolates are good

Students will prepared a signed message. Please verify and send a token or small amount of BTC to the bitcoin.co.id address below as this is where we will exchange bitcoin for rupiah and then back again to repay the loan and it can be tracked by everyone also note that I am registered user on bitcoin.co.id which required photo id, a recent picture with me holding up my signature to verify my identity in order to register so that I can exchange bitcoin for rupiah on this site as per Indonesian law.

bitcoin.co.id.png

1. We will need everyone test  addresses by sending a token or small amount of BTC and then we will send that amount back to you to verify the addresses are working properly both ways before the loan is issued.

Arcurus Address:   1CYAXos2UoDYpBB8qoExR3TSyBWoEJHMQq (UNVERIFIED)

Fedde Address:  1CjPD6TU42wgu68nrT2uQeUduCL4UF1jH6 (UNVERIFIED)

Fabrizio Address:  1LYonRy8qoU7H2yt9yY3oHM1BbSGNXTh9K (VERIFIED)

Rik8119 Address:  1NBRiWWsQdEEAQU8KtWGg9xHQrrhYEWnG7 (UNVERIFIED)

2. Also once we have verified the addresses are working I would like you gentlemen to copy paste the message below into your Bitcoin Client and sign it. Then post the signature here or email me the signature so I can verify your addresses. (Email: darin.bicknell@gmail.com or PM) That way I can verify the address is correct and it is you. This is for educational purposes for students as much as legal purposes of 'digitally signing' the loan agreement.

3. We will confirm TX ID here once we receive and have confirmations of the transfer.

4. We will provide fortnightly and important updates of our progress.

5. The Bitcoin Signed Message was generated on the following bitcoin address: 1C4JHE16YJHrE8pQtYaRh9pqG6qJsC9Upm


-----BEGIN BITCOIN SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Borrower Bitcoin Address: 168g7hWSXsimXUU7pUjt5ftxw5sc2gHTK5

38 Freihour Loan / 380.00 US Dollar / 5.000.000 Rupiah Loan
Borrower: Darin M. Bicknell (Canadian Montessori School)
Lenders:   Arcurus, Fedde, Fabrizio, Rik8119  (Lenders Registered Pseudonym's on Freicoin Alliance Website)
 

Edited by Bicknellski
Final updated Loan Information. Please check signature and message match.

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Registered Participants for Training at Chocolate School note we have added the school owner to the program as she will be helping oversee the sales and finances for the program as she has more time now to engage in school activities. Note that she has a Masters in Finance and Accounting from the University of Kansas so we are well covered there. ;)

Students:

Mr. Benjamin Zachary Hanming Bicknell 
Ms. Anne Maria Anggraeni 
Mr. Ethan Jeremiah Hancheng Bicknell 
Mr. Elijah Lawrence Hansheng Bicknell 

Teacher:

Mr. Darin M. Bicknell 

 
School Owner:

Mrs. Roviana Tjoe
 

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On 30.8.2016 at 7:21 AM, Bicknellski said:

BTC so we don't have issues with exchange like last time be best. I like the idea of Freihours to Rupiah as well as long as we don't have any significant exchange losses either way to either party.

Hi Bick,

wasn't it the last time the same? We set the price in dollars.

I for my part will loan interest free 9.5 Freihours = 95 dollars (same amount counted in Freihours / dollars is expected to be paid back)

With not having a stable Freicoin price currently I prefer to give it in Bitcoin to the exchange rate of the day of the transaction.

The same way back. As send back address you can take the same address where the funds came from.

Once you have the address ready i will sent you the coins as soon as possible.

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10 hours ago, Arcurus said:

Hi Bick,

wasn't it the last time the same? We set the price in dollars.

I for my part will loan interest free 9.5 Freihours = 95 dollars (same amount counted in Freihours / dollars is expected to be paid back)

With not having a stable Freicoin price currently I prefer to give it in Bitcoin to the exchange rate of the day of the transaction.

The same way back. As send back address you can take the same address where the funds came from.

Once you have the address ready i will sent you the coins as soon as possible.

Same for me greetings Rik

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Yes. We will set the rate on the date we exchange Bitcoin to Rupiah. Issues might be volatility in the Rupiah price but I hope that is not the case for the next few months.

$95 or 9.5 Freihours is good agreed.

Note:

Added invoice from Chocolate School. We have not paid yet this is just the invoice. We will upload proof of payment after the class as payment is made on the day of the program.

Montessori Inv.pdf

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Note: The school owner has worked a deal with Chocolate School to observe and help students in the class but not take the course so we will only have to pay for 5 participants. We will get the updated invoice soon. She will help us document the students at the course with video and pictures as well as observe the class so later on she can help us with the production as well. It also leaves us more funds for baking. We will need to decide what supplies and specialty equipment and packaging we will need after the training.

 

 

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@Bicknellski I'll make the payment as soon as blockchain.info fixes my login, hopefully still today. (Yeah, I know.. I should change the webwally provider and indeed will do so when I get access ><)

*edit: Sent the test tx :)
Signature for loan agreement: H+sJmAkVXkspuoKmrMU9zBRqXsQi8cTqzOE2PdoTZ9jKTphDJK2SOO1YsxnLk0x/AZtJQL44DmZbl4b563rzN8w=
 

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Hi @Bicknellski , i do not have too much time at the moment. For me it is enough when you tell me an address that is only for my payment and i sent you the BTC there and post the address for payback here in the forum. So everybody is informed and it is asap - as simple as possible ;-)

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12 hours ago, Fabrizio said:

@Bicknellski I'll make the payment as soon as blockchain.info fixes my login, hopefully still today. (Yeah, I know.. I should change the webwally provider and indeed will do so when I get access ><)

*edit: Sent the test tx :)
Signature for loan agreement: H+sJmAkVXkspuoKmrMU9zBRqXsQi8cTqzOE2PdoTZ9jKTphDJK2SOO1YsxnLk0x/AZtJQL44DmZbl4b563rzN8w=
 

Okay got it.
Verified your address and added it to the loan agreement 1C4JHE16YJHrE8pQtYaRh9pqG6qJsC9Upm

Just to make sure it was this transaction correct Fabrizio?
 

6-Sep-16 23:55 Deposit 0.0000369 BTC 541771ba3737be4e9444287f12906ff203a39f9aac902a87927674552853df0c Success


Note I can't send back the 0.02$ it is too low an amount at Bitcoin.co.id 

conditions.png

 

Edited by Bicknellski
Added Fabrizio's address to the post and notes on the conditions at Bitcoin.co.id

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5 hours ago, Rik8119 said:

Hi @Bicknellski , i do not have too much time at the moment. For me it is enough when you tell me an address that is only for my payment and i sent you the BTC there and post the address for payback here in the forum. So everybody is informed and it is asap - as simple as possible ;-)

Please send loans to the following address as indicated above: 168g7hWSXsimXUU7pUjt5ftxw5sc2gHTK5

It would be good just to send a small amount first to confirm and I can send back a small amount. Just to be safe note that you should send about $1 rather than a few pennies because of the fees at Bitcoin.co.id for transferring coins is more than a few cents. Also I need everyone to provide me a bitcoin address so I can at least test send some BTC back to lenders. Also note although I know it is easier to just send bitcoin to an address the point of the activity beyond getting the loan is for students to learn how bitcoin / freicoin works. Not only that I want the students to learn signing procedures and good methods for checking addresses are working properly. 

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Hi Bick,

I have sent you 0,01 BTC to this address as test: e44494760346d922b897fa416e5d6e6709916fb430a941ef9f6a12d1e014ef13

As Rik I also would prefer to have it as simple as possible at the moment.

You can sent back the coins to the sending address.

To the loan itself.

I thought the loan is in dollars / Freihours not in Rupia?

Generally I would prefer to have loans counted in the stable unit Freihours, who knows if dollars or Rupia collapses...

 

To make it easy i would suggest to equal one Freihour to the purchasing value of one average working hour, currently 10 dollars, at the moment of the loan. If the purchasing power of dollar goes down for example 10% until the loan is payed back then 11 dollars must be payed back...

In away the loan would be counted in dollars and the interest would equal the inflation rate.

I think that would be fair for both parties and nominated in purchasing power this would still be a 0 interest loan.

Its not so much about this loan its just generally question.

What do you think? 

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I would suggest to support common good loans like this with Alliance funds.

My suggestion would be 10% for the borrower and 10% for the lender if the loan transactions are made in Freicoin or Freihours.

The lender get the Freicoins after giving the loan, the borrower after payback.

 

Granted Freicoin amount per user / user group may be limited.

I will borrow the needed Freicoins and donate my granted coins to Bicks School project.

 

What do you think?

 

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Hi Bick,

to the signing process, wouldn't it be enough if you / your students sign the agreement and then post it here? Whoever then transfers to the address used in the signing agrees to what is signed.

If you want to change the agreement you would have to use a new address, thats all.

What do you think?

 

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Again just so you understand my concerns and to clarify.

1. Loan is in US Dollars.

But I need to pay Chocolate School in Rupiah and Rupiah is how we will be paid when we sell our chocolate. So just so you know I am a little concerned about exchange rate issues should the Indonesian Rupiah fall dramatically. It has happened in the past and given the current world economic situation it might happen again. But we agree the loan is in US Dollars. We will pay back 95$ to each lender. I am posting the Rupiah exchange rate as reference for everyone so that we can see any possible issues should the Rupiah crash. The Freihours are a similar issue and are information only as per our convention here in the Freicoin Alliance forums.

2. If you can follow the procedure as described that would be best, if not no worries.

I have put out a simple enough procedure. If you don't have to time to check a signed message in bitcoin client that is fine. Just send the coins to the address. Don't worry about what the students do on this end I can make whatever the lenders do work as an activity. It be nice if we did the same thing we did last time. Just makes it easier for me to repeat the lessons I did on this 2 years ago. 

It worked out fine then. It takes literally 2 minutes to copy paste and sign a message in the Bitcoin client and all I need to see is your signature to that message and I can then verify. Note I have to add addresses to the signed message so please at least send a token amount asap so I can post them to the signed agreement here that is the copy we can all reference and check via the Bitcoin Client verify feature. If you do not want to countersign then ok that is fine. We have at least copy on record that states the "terms". To be honest I can cover the loan immediately if need be at any moment so there really is no concerns on default etc but the educational value is what is important. This is why Fedde's FRCJam idea for this is best so none of this manual copy paste stuff would be necessary and the gui / website can handle most of this.

* Guide: How so sign a message with blockchain.info & Bitcoin Core
https://forum.bitcoin.com/beginners-help/guide-how-so-sign-a-message-with-blockchain-info-t436.html

3. Send a token amount first and do it now or ASAP to this address: 168g7hWSXsimXUU7pUjt5ftxw5sc2gHTK5

If you have sent coins and given me a signature to check I will do that if not then no worries but please send a small token of coin to the address first and wait for me to confirm it is my Bitcoin.co.id account. Then you can send the rest. Please give me something soon so I can at least check that your address is working and that you are ready to send the full amount.

4. We pay Chocolate School on 15th of September.

As I mentioned before I will be paying for the Chocolate School next Thursday at  Chocolate School. So I would hope at least to have everything set in terms of funding to be at least deposited by the 14th of September from lenders.

5. Please note the amended loan agreement conditions to reflect US Dollar prices and proper dates etc.

I have made the necessary changes to the loan agreement short form and have updated address and signatures as required.

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10 hours ago, Arcurus said:

Hi Bick,

I have sent you 0,01 BTC to this address as test: e44494760346d922b897fa416e5d6e6709916fb430a941ef9f6a12d1e014ef13

 

HISTORY OF DEPOSIT/WITHDRAW BITCOIN SEPTEMBER 2016
Time Type Amount TX Status
7-Sep-16 22:45 Deposit 0.01 BTC e44494760346d922b897fa416e5d6e6709916fb430a941ef9f6a12d1e014ef13 Success

Bitcoin address for Arcurus : 

1CYAXos2UoDYpBB8qoExR3TSyBWoEJHMQq

 

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