3 more weeks until initial issuance is complete

[Mark Friedenbach 92]

The current block height is 160755. By my calculation that's 3,085 blocks (about 3 weeks) until the initial issuance of 100M freicoins is fully played out. That is also when the coinbase blocks stop including foundation outputs.

Time to organize a celebration?

[Skaro 129]

I like celebrations.

[Skaro 129]

163840  target number! 2037 left.

That's mostly payments of  95.367 in new coins to  1Nz4sg2St81anqGYhmf8nCSXpDjd7Et3iW , I guess that's Tulpar.

 

[Skaro 129]

163480 ...

[Mark Friedenbach 92]

???? ???? ???? ????

Yeah!!!

[Skaro 129]

Yeah!!! 

wooo hooo!!

[Bicknellski 276]

Ok now time to make the coin useful.

We just had to use BTC instead of FRC to make a micro loan possible and we just paid off the micro loan in BTC. I would prefer using FRC but that is nearly impossible. There are zero exchanges and only a handful of miners. Sadly I don't know how much more we need to do to get real traction on FRC with users but this issuance seem to be a hollow benchmark when we have a small number of of people actually using FRC. The coins we hold right now are for all intents and purposes worthless.

 

[Skaro 129]

It seems to me, with the issuance of the coins complete and little circulation of currency, the demurrage process will effectively transfer the money from the foundation (and any other people holding large number of freicoins) to the miners. Since only the miners can get the new coins but will also loose coins, eventually all the money would be distributed amongst miners according to their hashing power. That would take about 13 years for 50% of the funds to move and 60 years for 95% of the funds to move to the miners. Its really just another issuance process. 

 

[Bicknellski 276]

Yes that is correct and the foundation with the tiny community need to address that very issue as has been mentioned many times in many other posts. Problem being with just a handful of miners and only 1 or 2 on the foundation things will not be done in the best interest of 1000's of potential future users. Then again the coin is dead at this point anyhow so I am not sure if any of this really matters if we can't get more users.

1. I was of the opinion that besides demurrage we were going to see new features that would make FRC more interesting to a wider range of users, but nothing has moved forward at all in that respect from Mark and Jorge.

2. We have as a small group in the Freicoin Alliance attempted to get more exchanges (failed because the coin has too few users), set up our own exchange again too few users to make the effort worthwhile, we have also tried to promote the coin in as many places as possible but we have no traction or growth in users no matter the time we have put in.

3. Is there any point working on getting more users if the trend of most Alt-coins is slow death? Only coins that have new features seem to be doing well. The rest of the clones are dead for the most part. Are we just too late to make this coin work?

[Skaro 129]

Well it does seem to me that Freicoin has a few attributes that other slowly dying currencies don't have. Firstly, in many books on crypto currencies it's listed as one of the more innovative and interesting coins because of the demurrage concept. Second, it has a socialist anti-speculator sentiment that is popular these days. Also, because of the demurrage fee and the value of the coin, it seems to me that the fondation has no interest in holding funds either. So There is motivation to move that currency.  

Of course one cannot deny there is only one mining pool, 4 regular miners, and most blocks only contain one or two transactions. The transaction  comprise mostly the creation of new coins (now recycled) and payments to miners. I'm not sure who the different addresses belong to. 

 

 

[Rik8119 242]

On 11/22/2016 at 7:01 AM, Bicknellski said:

Yes that is correct and the foundation with the tiny community need to address that very issue as has been mentioned many times in many other posts. Problem being with just a handful of miners and only 1 or 2 on the foundation things will not be done in the best interest of 1000's of potential future users. Then again the coin is dead at this point anyhow so I am not sure if any of this really matters if we can't get more users.

1. I was of the opinion that besides demurrage we were going to see new features that would make FRC more interesting to a wider range of users, but nothing has moved forward at all in that respect from Mark and Jorge.

2. We have as a small group in the Freicoin Alliance attempted to get more exchanges (failed because the coin has too few users), set up our own exchange again too few users to make the effort worthwhile, we have also tried to promote the coin in as many places as possible but we have no traction or growth in users no matter the time we have put in.

3. Is there any point working on getting more users if the trend of most Alt-coins is slow death? Only coins that have new features seem to be doing well. The rest of the clones are dead for the most part. Are we just too late to make this coin work?

1+2. The attempt to promote the coin is indeed pointess when you have close to zero support from any dev. That is why i started WLC which has merge mining included and the association % payout to redistribute the coin is fixed for all times plus it is much easier to keep a currency alive and on an exchange when you can influence its development. FRC sure still has a role to play during the next (even bigger) financial crisis but it has no sustainable redistribution mechanism, what makes the demurrage useless in my eyes.

3. You said it: These are only features, there is nothing completely new no real innovation just pump and dump schemes. Ethereum tried it but just looking at the DAO disaster lets one guess how hard it is to supersede conventional centralized solutions with blockchain.

People are very short minded. The forget to easily how disastrous our money system is. As soon as it shows its evil face again they be back, i promise. To summarize a stock market wisdom: Buy the freaking dip.

[Arcurus 331]

Mainly we need to improve the following:

- Secure the blockchain

- bring the coin issuing / foundation to run or replace it

once the coin issuing is functioning, we could give incentives for using freicoin

How could Freicoin 2.0 lesson learned look like:

- use merge mining or alternative mining alg that only freicoin has

- switch to a combination of proof of work and proof of stake

POW + POS example:

- in each block 8 stakeholders are chosen, the more stake the more likely they are chosen

- foundation coins are not considered as stakeholders

- addresses with less than 1 coin are not considered as stakeholders (to remove dust in the unspent spet that is relevant for consens)

- not moved coins for one month are not considered as stakeholders if they didn't sign at least one stake transaction in the last month  

- each chosen stakeholder can create a so called ¨stake¨ transaction

- each stake transaction must refer one block and can only be included in the next block after this refered block

- the block which includes a stake transaction needs -10% difficulty for each included stake transaction

- each included proof of stake transaction gets 10% of the fees + 10% of the coinbase coins

 

If we would have this in place, how could the coin issuing look like?

- each stake transaction can assign up to 10% of the demurraged coins to so called ¨white listed addresses¨ 

- as long as there are non distributed foundation coins, each stake transaction can assign additional up to 10 times the value of the demurraged coins from the unspent foundation coins to the to so called ¨white listed addresses¨

with this in place and a demurrage of 5% per year, foundation coins could be at best issued in 2 years

- white listed addresses are enforced by a softfork through miners / stakeholders / nodes

for example the same like voting for bitcoin softforks: new addresses need 2/3 approval and are valid for one year or at max X coins. Addresses can be removed by setting x to 0  

 

 

[Skaro 129]

The things being proposed here are super fantastic, but I think we could focus on something smaller and immediate first. With Fedde getting the new exchange up, We once again have all necessary functioning elements necessary for a crypto coin, almost. We are also spreading the word and websites are linking to the updated Freicoin price and links! It would be timely if we could have easily installable files of the existing wallet. Presently,

1) the wallet .exe doesn't work on 64 bit version. The QT works, but if you want to update to the new chain you have to manually delete the block chain (in Appdata, also save private key before if anything goes wrong)

2) the -QT doesn't run on Linux, or not Ubuntu 16, at least.

3) i don't think anything exists for Mac. I don't recall if I tried clicking the Linux QT on my Mac.

There are still many nodes on the network that are not on the new chain. So for people to come back to Freicoin or new people to start, its unecessarily complicated.

 

So we need our beautiful and fabulous GUI of the existing wallet working on three platforms! To make Freicoin great again!

 

-Skaro

[Arcurus 331]

lol, yea make Freicoin great again

to 2) QT runs with Linux, at least for me, but currently only with wim :/

[Bicknellski 276]

On 2/24/2017 at 8:27 PM, Skaro said:

The things being proposed here are super fantastic, but I think we could focus on something smaller and immediate first. With Fedde getting the new exchange up, We once again have all necessary functioning elements necessary for a crypto coin, almost. We are also spreading the word and websites are linking to the updated Freicoin price and links! It would be timely if we could have easily installable files of the existing wallet. Presently,

1) the wallet .exe doesn't work on 64 bit version. The QT works, but if you want to update to the new chain you have to manually delete the block chain (in Appdata, also save private key before if anything goes wrong)

2) the -QT doesn't run on Linux, or not Ubuntu 16, at least.

3) i don't think anything exists for Mac. I don't recall if I tried clicking the Linux QT on my Mac.

There are still many nodes on the network that are not on the new chain. So for people to come back to Freicoin or new people to start, its unecessarily complicated.

 

So we need our beautiful and fabulous GUI of the existing wallet working on three platforms! To make Freicoin great again!

 

-Skaro

Bounty? 

[Arcurus 331]

Bounty sounds good.

[Skaro 129]

Yes to a bounty, in principle. I think Fedde has looked into this a bit and could provide maybe more details regarding the obstacles. 

[fedde 311]

Well, my findings is that the code needs to be branched up to a newer core, we are still on 0.8 version off bitcoin. I still have not had time to debug alot as it takes time to build under gitian to get a ok version for 64 bit.  0.10 and upwards contain builds for 64bit on windows. Linux versions build and work ok.

[Skaro 129]

Well that's quite illuminating (any sarcasm is a reflection of my own frustration). 

Just to keep the info together in one place, I had difficulty running the .exe on an AMD 64 bit Windows computer.

But the client itself works just fine on the 64 bit after the work around. So .... doesn't that mean something?

[fedde 311]

probarly due to windows drops down to compability mode for older software

 

[Rik8119 242]

HI, sorry for bringing up the topic of the opening post. but i have a question to you fellow freicoiners:

I think that it is very important for a system to be sustainable. This is why i fixed the miner/budget ratio in Solidar. In Freicoin we have now the situation that all mined coins go to the miners. Its not that i don't want them to run a profit but in times when the foundation is less active this could lead to an unnecessary price decrease. As the inflow/outflow in these time would still be the same it shouldn't mean less profits but a higher price and that would decrease the volatility. My main concern about Freicoin atm is that it has no sustainable structure.

To fix it we would need a hard fork from the devs, what do you think?

Rik

[Arcurus 331]

Yes we would need a hardfork to provide a sustainable budget. I'm all for it since years.

[Bicknellski 276]

I agree with that Rik.

[Rik8119 242]

Hopefully there will be no Freicoin Unlimited discussion ;-).

[Skaro 129]

The idea of diverting some of the 5% demurrage away from miners to something well within the original philosophy of Freicoin.

"Once all Foundation funds are spent, the annual 5% demurrage will go in full to miners if no alternative has been found."

https://freiexchange.com/pages/foundation

So I think it can be a good idea. (I'm the orignalist  texturalist here lol)

But I think we should be careful in our minds to consider that the cryptocurrency world is in a different state of evolution than anyone 'predicted', and Freicoin now is different from what it would be with higher volume. Also, perhaps we should consider Freicoin in a world with many cryptocurrencies existing simultaneously. I think the disincentive of usery has a different meaning in this view: people can use Bitcoin for investing and Freicoin for transfer, and maybe Solidar for imposing wealth redistribution in local groups.