felixlim

Global Universal System

12 posts in this topic

Hi all, I'm new here and is interested in UBI as tool to create a new economy with a cryptocurrency like freicoin/grantcoin.

I'm quite against the idea of bitcoin or friecoin using a fixed amount of currency and let market decide the value. Especially its very prompt for founders/investor to hog huge % of the currency, or mining to create new coins.

Is there possibility to based create based on per person instead? I made the following assumption:

-objective is to eliminate poverty and supplement low income to provide basic need (housing, food, water, education, medical)

- target 4B population or 50% of world population (not going to create a utopia and only provide for Pro UBI users where the Anti can stay out) of the lower income range. (US or top developed countries with high GDP per capita might not have lower % threshold while developing and third world will have higher % threshold

- $30 per day given ( for ease of calculation i use $30 but below 18 year old can set lower amount with ranges)

- basic income for business (based on no of employees turnover etc)  + Social business model where minimum 51%-100% of ownership must be registered users co-owned

- Backward calculation from date of birth and use 50 years old as average age as example: 4B x $30 x 50(average age of 4B) x 365 days= $2,190T (reason I use calculation from date of birth is to have equality from birth concept for anyone alive anywhere on earth. This amount of currency will be progressively realized over period of time eg 5 or 10 years to focus on green sustainable programs only.

- Each month $30 x number of users 4B max x 30 days= $3.6T per month of UBI+ verifiable wages/salaries (from USD1 per day to $1000 per month) Combined income will be open to investors or banks etc to fund loans required. (eg loan to fund dormitory housing for low income/foreign workers which also provide social business service like central kitchen for daily food, mini mart for daily provisions,training/education or laundry service etc。Land and building will be use as collateral and therefore fund required might be 10-30% in cash required) Any funding will accept with 100% guaranteed repayment and since the loan look use average lifespan and BI+any current wages or salary, it will make many unqualified loan applicants qualified at a much lower interest rate. 0% default rate as UBI will act as fixed repayment. The UBI will be used to provide better housing,food education, medical that is falling in current situation and will not required funding from any government that is so much rejected in any proposal to increase tax to fund it.  

- Social business(SB) will set 30% profit margin for all goods and services provide to pool of users and points system given for their commitment to spend only on affiliated social businesses. 

eg: $1 pen for 1 million user. Buy in bulk with discount=$0.70. SB sell to users at $0.91 and therefore users will enjoys savings of $0.09 and $0.21 profit will be used to fund UBI and operating expenses. There will also be SBs that employ users enrolled with UBI and get additional wages/salary at minimum national rates. Repeat model for all products and services feasible to create this economy where consumers are also co-owners directly to promote customer loyalty.

- There will be various models for different countries due to different requirements of needs. Data collection will be analyze through survey and polls with a gamification reward model ro encourage participation. Programs of different scales from 10 person minimum-millions person easily replicate around the world using open source concept. 

- As there is no quick or one shot method to replace any national currency, daily transaction of services or products trade between registered that accept the new global currency will also act as backing. eg $50 for haircut $50 for plumber. 2 users will pay $100 total to global central bank (GCB) which will build up fund to create more finance options. Will peg 1:1 to USD for ease of calculation in transactions. This will reduce all speculative nature in digital coins like bitcoin suffered. Valuation of this global currency (GB) is constant as long as there is human beings willing to participate.

Since the economy model is using self fund through creating pool of users, identify their needs and take loans as a pool, there will not be tax increase funding oppose by public and got flexibility to scale down and start when platform is ready.

More details can be found at https://plus.google.com/collection/QPUllB. I call this system Global Universal System (GUS) and hope Friecoin members can also give me feedback to improvise:)

You may email me limstfelix@gmail.com if interested to partner/volunteer in any part of this project.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi there felixlm,

welcome to the freicoin alliance forum. I did not get every detail in your plan, but as someone that already build a basic income on the blockchain (Worldleadcurrency - that was active 2 years before grantcoin started.) the hardest part is to get a critical mass of users to get a system going. As soon as this happens there could be further ideas to be developed. That should be more effective than the other way around.

There have been extensive ideas to get a basic income involved in freicoin and all the economic implications possible. What i see is that basic income has a very vague community and most of them still think that it can be applied in fiat money, what is ridiculous looking at the momentous power structures associated with fiat money (Central Banks, Hedgefonds etc.).

And to me Grantcoin is a nice project but it is just fiat money with a basic income. And as far as the theory for freicoin is considered it will lead to ever rising prices, that will again give advantages to big cooperations.

I do not understand all what you have planed but to get as many users as possible my impression is to make it as simple as possible.

To a UBI with Freicoin: Many here on the board are thinking about it, BUT as Freicoin has no sustainable supply for a basic income (all new coins go to miners now) it would run out of funds soon. The idea behind Freicoin is demurrage, not UBI. If it would be UBI it would be designed in a complete other way - much more like my coin.

Another thing to consider: The intersection between blockchain and UBI is very small and most of the actors involved have their own ideas how to get started. And as the interest often falls down during economic more stable times, it is important to keep the core functions managable with a low personal intervention. If a currency want to include these ideas and many of those people (multiplier) than it again has to be simple.

So, what exactly are your milestones, what is your plan. How to get a community?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi,its not surprising that the success of any digital currency 400+ now will fail despite all the innovative feature n unique needs they identified. Because no one is willing to address all real life situation on the basic and try sell the final stage skipping many important factors. For me i try analyze which coin meet some if not all of my objective and look for possibility to work out a new direction with a ready team instead of try build one from scratch. I also don't agree to grantcoin idea n some of freicoin's, including looking at duniter which is only good that it has take monetary system into consideration. Central banks, fiat currency are two component we all need take into consideration if on one hand need their investment n yet no gradual step planned to absord them in. Full diversification or no central mgmt like we see with bitcoin round table will not work too as can be seen with their progress. Blockchain to me is about security only not about the diversity that i like but dont need now. 

Gamification n game based on data collection is whats need to build a user base first before real impact of progress can be met to solve all complicated problems. Just like all new players start level 1 on same ground register n play. Pokemon dont even need user guide created themselve n user do it on strong interest from the ground instead. All talk of a complicated techinsl of ubi or blockchain is what only 0.01 of the population understand n not required on my website when i start beta.

I start alone with talks to few parties ongoing at same time because in ubi or blockchain community  i need find the 0.1% of which understand my whole system. There isn't much need to form a community as they will form themselves when beta is ready. 

I had few private fund option but at the same time this system is designed that banks or VCs will apply as applicants what they want offer. They accept all info over blockchain n sign smart contract if we select. A bit like theDAO. Feel free to ask all you dont understand about my project if you need because only reason i still not making much progress is i choose my team carefully n required their full understanding before i even want to put funding aside to move on realistic targets. I'm not coder just business with basic knowledge of IT but i believe i had the solution and can look from a third party view from outside much objectively than most in the industry.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi here are some of my questions:

----I'm quite against the idea of bitcoin or friecoin using a fixed amount of currency and let market decide the value. Especially its very prompt for founders/investor to hog huge % of the currency, or mining to create new coins. ----

Who else but the market should decide the price? Price regulations always result in a flourishing black market what is most of the market in crypto. Binding it to fiat money is dangerous, cause they also tend to crash..

---basic income for business----

Are the businesses also given money? I do not see any advantages here

---Combined income will be open to investors or banks etc to fund loans required.----

Additional to the BI there are loans for investors and banks given?

 

Thanks again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Rik8119 said:

Hi here are some of my questions:

----I'm quite against the idea of bitcoin or friecoin using a fixed amount of currency and let market decide the value. Especially its very prompt for founders/investor to hog huge % of the currency, or mining to create new coins. ----

Who else but the market should decide the price? Price regulations always result in a flourishing black market what is most of the market in crypto. Binding it to fiat money is dangerous, cause they also tend to crash..

---basic income for business----

Are the businesses also given money? I do not see any advantages here

---Combined income will be open to investors or banks etc to fund loans required.----

Additional to the BI there are loans for investors and banks given?

 

Thanks again.

 
 

Under GUS the global currency using blockchain is backed by each human being authenticated calculated from date of birth and there will be backdated calculation to ensure concept of real equality for everyone anywhere on earth. I agree on your hogging part especially by investor or founder in any of the 400+cryptocurrency now in the market. GUS is 100% user registered own and has a meritocracy system to determine points which will measure each user contribution to society by definition of work. It's capped at 50% of the lower income world population at any time till every user agreed to set some other mechanism to increase limit or threshold as this program do not want to waste time convincing all who don;t understands it only one purpose: eliminate poverty and financial inequality from birth based on limited world resources available now. It's won't be a cult where there is blind loyalty required and there will alway be a waiting list of applicant if threhold is reached for applicant wishing to join. 50%minimum-100% ownership of and business wish to join the GUS is required and 100% user owned new social businesses will ensure any profiteering will only benefit the users. We have to always refer back to the real world mechanism of how rich people avoid tax but this time we group all eg 1m SMEs and register under a tax haven legally. Pegged to currency eg USD is only a progressive solution as only with a economy within GUS bigger than USD or other currencies can you then talk about all the out of control QE fractional reserve banking illness central banks created. The idea of no central bank in any digital currency is good but not realistic because unless the dependent for funding in a free market be it investors or banks is so strong and yet who will be noble enough to support aobjective that will one day eliminate their existence. GUS/me designing the platform do have belief of people are born good, absolute right to freedom and democracy but we can only be realistic that even in any civic system there are flaws causing inequality and injustices that can only get more glaring by the days in this age of internet.  Human look at self interest by nature as we can see all sort of activisms out of every noble causes definited but none can settle this basic death by poverty issue till today, which I won't debate with the other half whom had no comparison to the level of suffering defined in other part of the world.

The tied to fiat currency is definitely dangerous and as you said will crash. But under GUS using its own global currency slowly retaining and absorbing fiat currency to act as 2nd backing, any impact of currency crush like the bolivar can be easily absorb by the overall population. Labor by anyone on earth should not be taken for granted due to hyperinflation and view equally across the board with BI and GUS own global currency(GC). When that happen people can easily use GC instead of debt backed USD.  

Basic income for business is another area no one explored to encourage entrprenuership. There wil be different classification and categories for different industry or size of business based on numder of staff. Its to promote unity and growth in size. Now we go for job interview to get selected but under GUS users will 100% get to work in any afiliated businesses they wish across all industries. As 100% accountability and transparency will ensure thresholds and mechanisms to determine who will get what type of work, minimum pay or salaries or just BI will learning on the job to move up in positions. Profitable businesses will have contrinution maximum in utilising their fund in creating 0% unemployment and all have ready pool of labor who as co-owners willingness to focus more on business growth in all ways and reduce in-house politics or power struggles. Based on meritocracy for everyone to move up in positions. One man show will not get more business BI and in bigger groups there is more synergy in every aspects to negotiate with real world. Drink a coke or clean toilet for life does that give you entitlement to the company you use or work for? In GUS its simply the more you consume or contribute in working hours, the more points you can convert to ownership of the business and in weight of your vote in related area. 

Funding by banks or investor who hold the fiat currencies in loans is required as long as they are willing under their current criteria set(100% ownership by users under GUS is main principle non negotiable, they get interest from loans only) and proposals will be open in GUS for them to submit and GUS committee to vote who to choose. Initial phrase I believe all funding will be through crowdfunding or donation where every dollars will be given points to rewards donors/sponsors later when GUS is able to. My experience is despite any amount of donations you can afford now out of good will big or small, no NGOs will have plans good enough for you when you fall on hard time or bankrupcy. Donors will get priority in queue for BI and points converted for their emergency needs for their no interest support all the years. Remember the 50% lower income threshold limit, some middle/high income can join for now for short period when user registration base is low( can help increase credit rating and higher loan amount) but they will need to move out when people in lower income range come in. Only BI is used for loan repayment and won't affect their freedom to use any current wages or salary but their higher % of commitment in income for GUS afiliated business will inturn get them more points too.    

There are many social and financial issues non related but no topics in the world will be avoided under GUS with proper prioritiizing based on different needs and resources. Bitcoin as most successful digital currency is not even worth 0.0001% of world economy and now with a few millionaires speculating it, we see the roller coaster ride recently. I see many good system and technology in not only freicoin but also grantcoin, duniter, DAO, etc. But none can come close in term of scale, feasibility or coverage like the GUS I proposed. A central decision making is always needed from small scale and as it grow decentralize progressively in stages to always stay on focus and prevent decentraliztion problems faced by bitcoin round table. That's why only a balance solution like GUS can convince all parties simply using logically, scientific system and available open source technology is more than sufficient to solve complex issues in all area that no blockchain companies/currencies can do on poverty alone. If you read my messy blog you can see there is enough info to even come out with a book but I prefer not to do all alone and let others push in any direction similar to mine while I just think and write till the day I can get a simple BI.  

Hope I answer your questions and ask more if still confused.

Thanks for your interest too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi felixlim,

sorry for the late answer. I like your attitude, but like you said there are many other good systems and technologies and it is a very hard for a "new" idea to be noticed. Even bitcoin is small compared to the overall volume and altcoins are even smaller. So the possibility to "fail" is high. The good thing is: there is a huge potential during the coming global financial crisis.

To me personally i do not like to be dependent on investors. And to bind a part of the basic income to businesses is a unnecessary ballast, because it do not contribute much to the system.The true value comes from the people that are willing to pay (with time, work or money) for your currency because they see a value in it.

To me the basic income idea is also secondary as the main goal is to redistribute wealth. Basic income is just the most convenient way to spread the wealth collected by demurrage introduced by freicoin.

The main question stays: how to mobilize or form a community that is willing to use a basic income money system, not based on fiat money.

Greetings Rik

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think we are already trying to do that within the Freicoin Alliance. We are already committed to doing a number of projects using FRC. That is where I think I would spend my time. I don't think we need to add more complexity to what we already have. We need to work on FRC and the things we already have in place.

I invite anyone who wants to add to FRC to join us in our effort. We in the FRC Alliance are keen on working towards Universal Income and we have as a key point in our plans. But to do that we need a viable coin. FRC needs an active pool, exchange, forum and needs to be listed for it to have any hope of success and getting more people using FRC. I hope you join us since FRC demurrage really is all we need to work towards a more equitable world. Demurrage currency has worked in the past. We can make it work now with help.

FRC Pool: http://www.freicoinpool.com/
FRC Coin Explorer: http://explorer.sicanet.net/
Wallet Download Page:  http://freico.in/download/
Exchange: Beta Test Exchange for FRC
Freicoin Alliance Forum: You Are Here
Freicoin Github: https://github.com/freicoin/

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/24/2017 at 4:34 PM, Rik8119 said:

Hi felixlim,

sorry for the late answer. I like your attitude, but like you said there are many other good systems and technologies and it is a very hard for a "new" idea to be noticed. Even bitcoin is small compared to the overall volume and altcoins are even smaller. So the possibility to "fail" is high. The good thing is: there is a huge potential during the coming global financial crisis.

To me personally i do not like to be dependent on investors. And to bind a part of the basic income to businesses is a unnecessary ballast, because it do not contribute much to the system.The true value comes from the people that are willing to pay (with time, work or money) for your currency because they see a value in it.

To me the basic income idea is also secondary as the main goal is to redistribute wealth. Basic income is just the most convenient way to spread the wealth collected by demurrage introduced by freicoin.

The main question stays: how to mobilize or form a community that is willing to use a basic income money system, not based on fiat money.

Greetings Rik

 

I also hate to depend on most investors, therefore my system is created with them last on my mind but can't ignore their existence. GUS is a test to those who really intend to donate 99% of their wealth for the betterment of mankind.

There are some part of Freicoin that I see in being part of my project whether or not the developers agree fully to mine or not. I will still keep track of Freicoin progress and the more progress it made, the better it is for my project too where I can make easy reference. A community is hard to build and even with FB or all sort of forums around, it can facilitate discussion but not progress if people focus on differences and not common interests. Like me who is willing to explore till this part of the world and register on this forum to find like-minded people:) It's still tough to gather enough a big community of individuals/groups, but like how I keep google and join all available channels to keep an open mind and discuss with any who is willing to share, I believe someday we can really work out something to create the required impact together. Every small steps like i started post and you replied are what's encouraging us to keep moving ahead.

Be it here or ekata.social that I also working with to create my own community, various social media platform is required to register our own project to gather the required community scale. A marketing campaign like the ice bucket with the right cause, timing and people is all that's required to explode any of our project to scale.

Cheers, Felix

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/3/2017 at 9:13 AM, Bicknellski said:

I think we are already trying to do that within the Freicoin Alliance. We are already committed to doing a number of projects using FRC. That is where I think I would spend my time. I don't think we need to add more complexity to what we already have. We need to work on FRC and the things we already have in place.

I invite anyone who wants to add to FRC to join us in our effort. We in the FRC Alliance are keen on working towards Universal Income and we have as a key point in our plans. But to do that we need a viable coin. FRC needs an active pool, exchange, forum and needs to be listed for it to have any hope of success and getting more people using FRC. I hope you join us since FRC demurrage really is all we need to work towards a more equitable world. Demurrage currency has worked in the past. We can make it work now with help.

FRC Pool: http://www.freicoinpool.com/
FRC Coin Explorer: http://explorer.sicanet.net/
Wallet Download Page:  http://freico.in/download/
Exchange: Beta Test Exchange for FRC
Freicoin Alliance Forum: You Are Here
Freicoin Github: https://github.com/freicoin/

 

 

I will keep track of Freicoin progress and hope for more success on its part. all the links I will try test it out and join where possible to promote those that is relevant to my project:) My aim is 0 poverty which required me to design my project to be complicated where I hope it can be simplified too. As thick as the bible or simple as the word 'democracy', we live in a over complex world that required a number of complicated systems to solve all problems together:)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My aim is Zero poverty as well. FRC can help with that aim I am certain.

Without interest money will circulate. Freicoin is the way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/9/2017 at 1:02 PM, Rik8119 said:

And to me Grantcoin is a nice project but it is just fiat money with a basic income. And as far as the theory for freicoin is considered it will lead to ever rising prices, that will again give advantages to big cooperations.

why is grantcoin fiat money? Yes grantcoin will lead to rising prices, but not necessarily this gives advantages to big corporations. As long as the newly created money is given directly to the people, the people have the most benefit and cannot be dried out like in the current interest / debt based system or in an gold like system which will ultimately again lead to a interest / debt based system, because it accumulates with time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/21/2017 at 6:49 PM, Arcurus said:

why is grantcoin fiat money? Yes grantcoin will lead to rising prices, but not necessarily this gives advantages to big corporations. As long as the newly created money is given directly to the people, the people have the most benefit and cannot be dried out like in the current interest / debt based system or in an gold like system which will ultimately again lead to a interest / debt based system, because it accumulates with time.

Ok, it is not exactly like fiat money. But i see what is happening today and lay it on this model. If there is a monthly inflation in prices of 1%, the prices are rounded to the next higher cent. 1.05,- would end up as 1.07.- not 1.06.-. For small businesses this makes no big change but for large it makes a real difference. So as fast rising prices are too confusing for most people and the big corporations will profit more. The result is inequality and rising prices that are slowly eating up the basic income like inflation in fiat money slowly dissolves loans.

Summarized: Using inflation to redistribute wealth is just not working IMHO. We need an active approach like a wealth tax or - even better - just demurrage. Or a debt cut.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now